According to THIS article on the net.
I have been running Cross Cultural workshops and working as a cross-cultural / cross-linguistic buffer in Asia for over 12 years now. Growing up in a mixed up cultural background and spending time constantly working between different cultural groups, I feel that over the years, the contrast between different cultures working and living together in Asia has become not as crisp as it was when I first started. I get so used to jumping between languages and cultures in my professional and personal lives, that the ‘mind set shift’ becomes automatic to the point that I often don’t realise what the ‘shifts’ are.
In a few weeks I will be running a Cross Cultural / Cross Linguistic workshop for large western company that will be sending many expats into work with and manage several thousand Indonesians. I thought it would be a good opportunity to put a survey out to my networks in Indonesia and hear from the horse’s mouth what their CURRENT opinions are on themselves, their own country’s culture, languages and how they view westerners in their country.
If you are Indonesian and still haven’t shared your thoughts with me by filling out the survey, there’s good news!… I will be leaving the survey open indefinitely. You can access it HERE.
Questions
Here is a list of the questions asked in the survey:
Here is a list of the questions asked in the survey:
No.
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English
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Bahasa Indonesia
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1
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What part of Indonesia are you from?
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Di indonesia, anda berasal dari daerah mana?
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2
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Where do you live (city) now?
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Anda tinggal di mana (kota) sekarang?
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3
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What religion are you?
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Agama anda apa?
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4
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Aside from Bahasa Indonesia, can you also speak any other local Indonesian languages?
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Selain bahasa Indonesia, apakah anda bisa bahasa daerah seperti sunda, jawa, dll?
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5
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Do you still use the local languages that you can speak? If so, where / when?
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Apakah anda masih menggunakan bahasa daerah yang anda kuasai tersebut? Kalau iya, dimana anda biasanya menggunakan bahasa tersebut?
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6
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In your honest opinion, what does the term ‘bule’ mean to you? (both positive and negative meanings)
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Menurut pendapat jujur anda, apa artinya istilah ‘bule’ bagi anda, baik positif maupun negatif?
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7
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Please list 3 principles of Indonesian culture that you would consider important – e.g. ‘gotong royong’
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Tolong sebutkan 3 prinsip budaya Indonesia yg penting bagi anda, contohnya gotong royong.
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8
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In your opinion, what do foreigners need to understand about Indonesia and Indonesian when working in Indonesia?
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Menurut anda, apa yang diperlukan oleh orang dari luar negeri untuk mengerti tentang negara indonesia dan warga negaranya ketika bekerja di indonesia?
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9
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How do you feel about foreign men dating Indonesian women? (without the intent of marrying them).
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Bagaimana perasaan anda tentang laki-laki bule yang berpacaran (dan tidak mempunyai tujuan untuk menikah) dengan perempuan indonesia?
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10
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How do you feel about cross-cultural / cross-religious relationships? Would you allow your child marry a foreigner or someone of a different religion?
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Bagaimana perasaan anda tentang hubungan lintas budaya/agama? Apakah anda akan memperbolehkan anak anda menikah dgn orang asing atau orang yang berbeda agama?
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11
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From the foreigners in Indonesia that you either know or have observed, how would you rate foreigners living in Indonesia’s overall understanding of Indonesian culture
(Don’t understand at all, Insufficient Understanding, Sufficient Understanding, Extreme Understnding)
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Diantara orang-orang asing yang anda ketahui dan/atau telah anda perhatikan di indonesia, berapa anda akan beri nilai untuk pengertian dan kepekaan mereka terhadap kebudayaan indonesia ?
(Sama Sekali Tidak Mengerti, Kurang Mengerti, Cukup Mengerti, Sangat Mengerti)
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Speaking Regional Languages
I’ve found from the responses to the survey, the situation in regard to regional languages is slightly different to the situation in Thailand. In Thailand, especially in Bangkok, there is a certain stigma that’s attached to people speaking non-central Thai. The main dialect regions in Thailand are Northern, Isaan (Northeast), Central and Southern. There are many shades in each of these and some are thought to sound more refined than others. I have even seen people on the skytrain, subway, restaurants and other places with ‘people’ in downtown Bangkok receive a call on their mobile phone only to quickly hang-up on the caller saying something to the extent of ‘I’ll call you back soon’ in their local dialect trying not to be heard. I find this happen mostly with people who speak Isaan.
From the results from the Indonesian survey, I get the feeling that people are a lot more proud to use their local languages in public, as long as they are with people who speak the same language /dialect. One of the reasons that people would choose to switch to standard Bahasa Indonesia would be to release them from the hierarchical bonds that languages like Balinese, Javanese and Sunda put on them. Javanese for example has several levels of speech – Krama (High), Krama Inggil (High Krama), Krama Andhap (Low Krama), Madya (Middle), Ngoko (Low). In any interaction in Javanese, someone would have to have a full grasp on the nuances of all these registers of speech / vocabulary to be able to competently communicate in a respectable / appropriate manner. Speaking in Bahasa Indonesia to a great extent strips away many of those levels and gives a ‘vanilla flavoured’ language where people’s statuses are to a good extent flattened (though not to the extent of English).
Many of the responders mentioned that their level of their local language isn’t where they would like it to be. Many who speak Javanese speak mainly in the low level and are embarrassed of their lack of ability. Using standard Bahasa Indonesia is a safe alternative for them.
‘Bahasa Indonesia’ or ‘Indonesian’- Not just ‘Bahasa’
While we’re on the point of ‘Bahasa Indonesia’, I’d like to address a pet gripe of mine. Many of my clients will send me an email or call me up and ask if I’m free to do a job in ‘Bahasa’. ‘Bahasa’ is a Sanskrit based word – भाषा ‘Bhasha’ that just means ‘language’. So ‘Bahasa Indonesia’ mean ‘Indonesian Language’. The same word is used in many other languages like Thai ภาษาไทย ‘Phasa Thai’. If you’re going to use the term Bahasa when speaking English, say ‘Bahasa Indonesia’ or ‘Bahasa Melayu’ etc … otherwise it’s just like saying “Are you free to do a job in ‘language’?”
While we’re on the point of ‘Bahasa Indonesia’, I’d like to address a pet gripe of mine. Many of my clients will send me an email or call me up and ask if I’m free to do a job in ‘Bahasa’. ‘Bahasa’ is a Sanskrit based word – भाषा ‘Bhasha’ that just means ‘language’. So ‘Bahasa Indonesia’ mean ‘Indonesian Language’. The same word is used in many other languages like Thai ภาษาไทย ‘Phasa Thai’. If you’re going to use the term Bahasa when speaking English, say ‘Bahasa Indonesia’ or ‘Bahasa Melayu’ etc … otherwise it’s just like saying “Are you free to do a job in ‘language’?”
Bule… Bule Bule Bule
As you travel throughout Asia, you’ll find that most countries have their own ‘endearing’ term for ‘westerners’. In Hong Kong it’s 鬼佬 ‘Gwai’Lo’, in Mandarin it’s 老外 ‘lao wai’, in Japanese it’s 外人 ‘gai jin’, Tagalog it’s ‘puti’, Thai is ฝรั่ง ‘Farang’, Malay it’s ‘Mat Salleh’ and in Indonesian it’s BULE (pronounced ‘boo-leh’).
I often read forums from all these countries in both English and in the local languages and the feelings vary. Some will say that these are derogatory terms for foreigners, some will say that they’re neutral and others will say that they’re terms of endearment. I’ll let you decide. Most of the responses were in Bahasa Indonesia, so I have translated all the responses and deleted any repetition. I’ll leave it to you to decide whether or not you’d like to be considered a ‘bule’.
As you travel throughout Asia, you’ll find that most countries have their own ‘endearing’ term for ‘westerners’. In Hong Kong it’s 鬼佬 ‘Gwai’Lo’, in Mandarin it’s 老外 ‘lao wai’, in Japanese it’s 外人 ‘gai jin’, Tagalog it’s ‘puti’, Thai is ฝรั่ง ‘Farang’, Malay it’s ‘Mat Salleh’ and in Indonesian it’s BULE (pronounced ‘boo-leh’).
I often read forums from all these countries in both English and in the local languages and the feelings vary. Some will say that these are derogatory terms for foreigners, some will say that they’re neutral and others will say that they’re terms of endearment. I’ll let you decide. Most of the responses were in Bahasa Indonesia, so I have translated all the responses and deleted any repetition. I’ll leave it to you to decide whether or not you’d like to be considered a ‘bule’.
Positive | Negative |
neutral culture
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selfish
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more developed
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look down on other cultures
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westerner
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arrogant
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open minded
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proud
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long pointy nose
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albino – pigment deficiency
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blue eyes
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don’t like to learn language or culture of host country
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good looking
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doesn’t like washing
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speaks English
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dirty
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likes to be practical
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smells
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rich
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has free sex
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smart
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afraid of commitment to marriage
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live for the future
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atheist
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egotistical
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only eats bland food
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cannot eat chilli / hot and spicy food
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alcoholic
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refuse to try and understand Indonesian culture
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| Has bad taste in women – can’t tell a ‘good looking’ or ‘good’ woman from a ‘less than good’ one | |
don’t try to see things through the eyes of Indonesians
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dress inappropriately
| |
too much emphasis on personal privacy
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don’t respect the past
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Many locals will be reluctant to mention what the ‘real’ feelings are about the term ‘bule’ as they think that it would be disrespectful. I have run workshops with expats in Indonesia and Thailand that have said ‘Some people might think those things, but they don’t think that about me – it’s not a negative term in my mind’. My response to that is that perhaps you are in denial.
Core Indonesian Values
Even though I asked for 3 of the core values that they thought were most important, many of the respondents gave more than 3. The answers all hovered around similar points. It would seem that knowing the appropriate protocols is paramount. The other major concept to embrace is that of family and society / the workplace as an extended family. We will see in a later question that part of showing respect and getting into the ‘culture’ and showing that you ‘care’ is learning how to address people properly. Not just by their name, but by the kinship title that an Indonesian version of you would address them in in Indonesia.
Respect / Politeness - Using appropriate greeting protocols 71%, Friendly 67%, Gotong Royong' - Mutual Assistance and Repect 63%, Family 54%, Respect Elders 46%, Caring for each other 42%, Tolerance 42%, Cooperation 42%, Importance of Religion 29%, Social Solidarity 25%, Humility 21%, Maintaining Good Relations / Networks of Influence 17%, Dilligence 13%, Forgiveness 13%
What do Westerners Need to Understand about Indonesia when Living and Working in Indonesia?
Answers were very long and descriptive here. In the following chart, I’ve translated the answers and categorized them under just a few major headings. From right across the board, nearly everyone unanimously said that learning the Indonesian language and learning about Indonesian culture is THE most important thing for foreigners to do when working in Indonesia. Not just learn about the culture, but to implement what was learned too.
Many foreigners may think that the linguistic side isn’t important and that they are there just to do business. The fact is though, in order to do business well, the foreigners need to work with and motivate local teams. To truly do that effectively, language and being able to speak to and understand the heart of the people is a vital ingredient.
Learn Indonesian 96%, Learn about Indonesian culture and do what you've learned 96%, Listen 79%, Don't come across as thinking you are superior 79%, Don't cause people to lose face 75%, Don't appear arrogant 63%, Don't Speak too much 21%, Don't just treat everything as business 21%, Don't think of Indonesia as a terrorist country 13%
One response stood out in regard to language and culture:
Tidak Tahu Unggah Ungguh
Foreigners should learn to address people – especially those older than them by the correct term. E.g. ‘Pak’ or ‘Paman’ for an older male. Even though a certain degree of familiarity might exist, for example a foreigner’s child should not just call the driver by his name directly. (He should use the correct term of address). This is often called ‘Tidak tahu Unggah Ungguh’ – to not be of a good upbringing / not know how to operate in a normal society.
Depending on what ethnic group and what part of Indonesia you are in, the terms used to address people can vary. There are a standard set of terms you can learn though that should get you by in most places. Stay tuned for an article covering these terms.
Depending on what ethnic group and what part of Indonesia you are in, the terms used to address people can vary. There are a standard set of terms you can learn though that should get you by in most places. Stay tuned for an article covering these terms.
How do you feel about foreign men dating Indonesian women? (without the intent of marrying them).
The answer to this one was divided, though still weighted about 70% towards the ‘do not approve’ answer. The main difference was that from the ‘do not approve’ group, about a third of those people did not approve, but thought that it was up to the individual’s involved. Everyone is different, so if the girl makes a decision to do that, it’s her decision.
The majority however did not like the idea of western men dating Indonesian women without the intent of marrying them and said that it just reinforced the negative connotations of ‘bule’. That is that they are dirty, immoral, non God fearing people that are just after free sex and to take advantage of people.
The answer to this one was divided, though still weighted about 70% towards the ‘do not approve’ answer. The main difference was that from the ‘do not approve’ group, about a third of those people did not approve, but thought that it was up to the individual’s involved. Everyone is different, so if the girl makes a decision to do that, it’s her decision.
The majority however did not like the idea of western men dating Indonesian women without the intent of marrying them and said that it just reinforced the negative connotations of ‘bule’. That is that they are dirty, immoral, non God fearing people that are just after free sex and to take advantage of people.
How do you feel about cross-cultural / cross-religious relationships? Would you allow your child marry a foreigner or someone of a different religion?
The answers here were varied, though the majority of respondents when it came down to it did not approve of people marrying across cultures and especially not across religions.
I have translated 3 responses below to show the gradient of opinions.
The answers here were varied, though the majority of respondents when it came down to it did not approve of people marrying across cultures and especially not across religions.
I have translated 3 responses below to show the gradient of opinions.
Sample 1
All humans were created differently. There aren’t any two people the same. That is the greatness of God, and that is what makes this world so beautiful. Because of this, I am extremely ok with cross-cultural and cross-religious relationships. I would certainly allow my child to marry a foreigner but not with someone of a different faith (this is my own personal principle), as it’s difficult to sail a ship with two completely different captains.
All humans were created differently. There aren’t any two people the same. That is the greatness of God, and that is what makes this world so beautiful. Because of this, I am extremely ok with cross-cultural and cross-religious relationships. I would certainly allow my child to marry a foreigner but not with someone of a different faith (this is my own personal principle), as it’s difficult to sail a ship with two completely different captains.
Sample 2
I don’t agree cross religious relationships because it is not permitted by Islam. If a Moslem marry’s someone who is not Moslem, it means that they will be committing adultery for eternity. Just as long as the two people follow the rules of marriage for Islam, I have no problems with people of different cultures or nationalities marrying.
I don’t agree cross religious relationships because it is not permitted by Islam. If a Moslem marry’s someone who is not Moslem, it means that they will be committing adultery for eternity. Just as long as the two people follow the rules of marriage for Islam, I have no problems with people of different cultures or nationalities marrying.
Sample 3
Cross-cultural no problem at all. Cross-religious or agnostic no way jose
[Note that this last response was submitted in English]
Cross-cultural no problem at all. Cross-religious or agnostic no way jose
[Note that this last response was submitted in English]
How Well do Foreigners Understand Indonesia?
The final question was to get a general picture of how Indonesians perceive foreigners living in Indonesia:
From the foreigners in Indonesia that you either know or have observed, how would you rate foreigners living in Indonesia’s overall understanding of Indonesian culture
(Don’t understand at all, Insufficient Understanding, Sufficient Understanding, Extreme Understanding)The results are as follows:
The final question was to get a general picture of how Indonesians perceive foreigners living in Indonesia:
From the foreigners in Indonesia that you either know or have observed, how would you rate foreigners living in Indonesia’s overall understanding of Indonesian culture
(Don’t understand at all, Insufficient Understanding, Sufficient Understanding, Extreme Understanding)The results are as follows:
Don't Understand at all 0%, Understanding Not Sufficient 58%, Understanding Sufficient 42%, Understand Very Well 0%
There is obviously a long way to go in developing a better cross-cultural understanding between foreigners living in Indonesia and Indonesians. I will continue to hone my cross cultural programmes to address all of these issues and more. One take-home from this survey is that in the programme that I will be running for one of my oil and gas clients in a couple of weeks is that ‘language’ is a ‘need to know’, not just a ‘nice to know’. I will incorporate fundamental language learning within the cultural programme in a fun way to at least equip the expats with enough to make a good impression and start building bridges with their Indonesian team-mates.
Take the Survey! (If you’re Indonesian)
At the time of writing this article, there have been a total of 51 respondents. I will be leaving the survey form open indefinitely and encourage all Indonesians out there to share your own views. Do you agree with these findings? Do you disagree? Let me know what you think.
You can access the survey on a separate page HERE.
At the time of writing this article, there have been a total of 51 respondents. I will be leaving the survey form open indefinitely and encourage all Indonesians out there to share your own views. Do you agree with these findings? Do you disagree? Let me know what you think.
You can access the survey on a separate page HERE.
Expats should know about Indonesian ideologies and values to achieve better in their new work environment. In order to plan, lead and control an organization to achieve it’s goals, managers must have human relation skills. It’s one of the basic management skills that enable them to get along with their colleagues and employees. My Australian step dad has lived in Indonesia for more than 20 years. Resulting him understanding our culture and speaking fluetly in Indonesian. He works as a surveyor and he works with a lot of Indonesian, but he never had a problem in communicating. For all I know, I’d think of him more of an Indonesian rather than Australian as he lost his accents along the way. He might not entirely lose it, as it is impossible, but he sounds different with his relatives.
ReplyDeleteI think it’s important that they know what we think and expect from them, with that information they can use it as their benefit. I agree with the positive side of what Indonesians say about expats. Open minded, practical, and smart. I might add that they value a strong sense of justice and fairness, tolerance, a less selfish society, and freedom of self-determination. If foreigners carry out what it takes to work and live in Indonesia, such as learning about our culture and applying it in daily activities, they’ll do just fine and get our respect.
"My Australian step dad has lived in Indonesia for more than 20 years. Resulting him understanding our culture and speaking fluetly in Indonesian."
DeleteThe second sentence here doesn't work; it sounds like a noun phrase.
A couple of possible solutions:
"My Australian step dad has lived in Indonesia for more than 20 years, resulting in him understanding our culture and speaking fluently in Indonesian."
"My Australian step dad has lived in Indonesia for more than 20 years. This has resulted in him understanding our culture and speaking fluently in Indonesian."
This was an interesting article for a "bule". I can understand a lot of these things, and that Westerners come off as ignorant when they are travelling to a different country I can also relate to. Some tourists are undeniably ignorant people who see the world with an etnocentric view, but not all of us are acting ignorant on purpose. Personally I like to try to adapt to the country I am visiting (whether it's in Europe or in Asia), as I hate feeling like a stupid tourist. But it's hard to be an expert in another culture when you are visiting for only 10 days. Even if I try to read about how one's supposed to act, you never completely know until you visit. In many cases it also feels like I am trying too hard if I use phrases I've only read or body language that feels way to obvious. I am staying in Indonesia for 5-6 months, so here I've decided to do a language course to learn bahasa Indonesia.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Pak/Mas and Ibu/Mbak this is very hard for me to get used to. I feel like if i apply these terms to the wrong people I will offend them, as it's hard for me to judge the age of Indonesians correctly. I've heard that people who are at a different stage in life than me are generally Bapak/Ibu, for example if they have children and are married. I heard it is sort of offensive if I call a girl (who is really an Mbak) Ibu, as this means that I think they are "old". Then it becomes very scary to use these terms as I can come off as more disrespectful than if I never used a title at all.
Okay, so here we are again talking about the stereotypes of different ethnic. Actually, I don’t get it. I mean who is the first one to make that kind of stereotype? Not all people of the same ethnic behave the same. In this case, for the Western people, they all have their own personality, how could we judge them like that? For example, I think not only Western people that have a possibility to smell bad; all people can have a bad-smell. It depends on their personality, whether they are a neat person or not.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yeah, for the Indonesian value, I admit that Indonesian people have a polite-freak syndrome. I mean that we, Indonesian, still uphold the politeness. That’s why we always curious about the age or maybe the occupation of someone, so we could know how to treat him/ her. I also agree that the language is important in Indonesia, because a lot of Indonesian people feel more comfortable to make a conversation in Bahasa Indonesia despite the fact that we are still facing the lack of English speakers. Most of Indonesian who can speak English prefers to listen rather than speaking, because we’ve a lack of confident. That’s why for the foreigner, everything will be easier, if you can speak Bahasa Indonesia.
"Okay, so here we are again talking about the stereotypes of different ethnic. Actually, I don’t get it. I mean who is the first one to make that kind of stereotype? Not all people of the same ethnic behave the same."
DeleteUnlike the various "Tips On Doing Business With..." materials I have posted, this exercise in stereotyping is based on some research by way of a survey [have you done the survey yourself, by the way? Here it is: http://stujay.com/indonesian-culture-survey/ ]. So the "stereotypes" that we see here are constructed from Indonesian people's observations and experiences. Of course not every "bule" will conform to the generalized characteristics [and we should not think that the research is claiming this to be so], but some of these characteristics are witnessed or perceived on many occasions by the people being surveyed. The more often these characteristics are mentioned by Indonesians, the closer we get to being able to deduce that they form part of a general or common view of "bules".
This article was a very interesting one because it offers me the possibility to see what the Indonesians think about me or the “bule” in general. It never came to my mind to ask an Indonesian what he or she is thinking about Westerners and their behavior because probably the answer would not be totally at odds with the truth as Indonesians try not to offend other people, all the more I am really curious about the findings of the article. I already thought that Indonesians may probably have a rather negative view of Western people just because their culture differs so much on the one hand but most likely because “bule” are not adapting and not trying to adapt to the Indonesian culture. But that there are so many negative associations with the term “bule” astonished me. To speak for myself, I really try to adapt to the culture as good as possible. I learnt Bahasa Indonesia and I can have a small talk with Indonesians which I consider really important for myself to get to know the people better but I can also feel that the Indonesians are really happy and appreciate it when you can speak at least a few sentences to them in their language which I think also shows some interest in the people and the country. I also try to understand the culture although this is sometimes quite difficult because it differs so much from my own, for instance not to criticize something or someone, but I know I am a visitor here so I have to at least respect it as well as the religion. Nevertheless I can not totally deny my own culture and therefore I think it is totally okay when I wear shorts and a t-shirt because I feel warm, it is not meant to offend anyone. I also don´t like to be called alcoholic, just because I drink some alcohol now and then. I could address a lot more points but in the end I think it is just normal that the Indonesians will never fully understand the Westerners and the other way round because our cultures and way of thinking differs too much. But wouldn´t it be boring without the differences and the little misunderstandings?
ReplyDelete"It never came to my mind to ask an Indonesian what he or she is thinking about Westerners and their behavior because probably the answer would not be totally at odds with the truth as Indonesians try not to offend other people, all the more I am really curious about the findings of the article."
DeleteI stumbled over your use of the idiom "[to] not be totally at odds with the truth" because you used it with the negative "not". It didn't seem to match the point I assumed you were making.
This is what I understood you to be saying: you haven't thought to ask Indonesians what they think of you because you assume they will say nice things regardless of what they really think.
Now, "to be at odds with the truth" means to be different from the truth, to be untrue. So, if "the answer would not be totally at odds with the truth", it means that the answer would be more or less true [by which we mean frank or candid]. However, I don't think this is what you mean to say. You are surely saying ~ with "Indonesians try not to offend other people" ~ that they don't like to be frank or candid!
In other words, delete the "not" and then the idiom seems to make sense.
For me, as a ”bule” living in Indonesia, this article was very interesting to read. When I looked at the table showing what Indonesians associate with the word “bule” I was a bit surprised.
ReplyDeleteSome comments show that people are sometimes a little narrow-minded, such as the statement that white people have pigment deficiencies or don’t like washing.
Some comments just reflect cultural differences which lead to certain opinions, for instance that “bule” dress inappropriately or are reluctant to marry. In the Indonesian culture it is common and also expected that people get married, Western values don’t require that any more. So of course, from an Indonesian point of view, not being married or not wanting to marry is concerned as strange, because it is different from Indonesian values. Western people might also consider things as weird that are different from their values. Concerning the dressing rules I have the same opinion as Dinah. I have my own culture and, of course, for sort of official purposes or in devoted Muslim villages I will dress politely in Indonesia. But I can’t completely deny my own culture and freedom, therefore I would like to wear the clothes that I want in my free-time without anyone judging me for that. Especially in a country where it is warmer than 30 degrees almost always.
Some opinions Indonesians have about foreigners are also due to experiences they must have made with “bule”. For example that they think “bule” are arrogant, selfish and look down on other cultures. When I see the behavior of some tourists abroad I can understand why Indonesians have those kind of opinions about us. Tourists sometimes just behave like everyone has to do what they want only because they are the customer and have a lot of money. They sometimes seem to forget that they should treat everybody with respect and be thankful for what people do for them. So for me it is sometimes a shame to see people of my culture behaving like that.
In the end, although there are many negative thoughts Indonesians seem to have about “bule” we have to consider that not everybody thinks that and that there are also a lot of positive thoughts about Western people, such as that they are more developed and educated as well as smart. And I like the statement in the article that “humans being created differently makes the world so beautiful”.
As an Indonesian I found this article very interesting to read, although I have to admit that my view about "bule" isn't as harsh as in the article. In my personal view, I see "bule" as a foreigner with blue eyes, light hair, white skin, and many other physical appearances that the Caucasian have. I agree that it is important for foreigner to know and learn about Indonesian culture and language before they came here, because Indonesian and western have a very different culture and sometimes Indonesian tend to misinterpret foreigner. Foreigner, especially westerners not only need to learn the linguistic side, but they also need to adjust to our life style and our culture.
ReplyDeleteAbout the cross cultural or cross religion relationship, I am totally fine with the cross cultural relationship because many of my acquaintance are having a relationship or either get married with a foreigner. But for a cross-religion relationship I’m not really sure about that because my parent have the same view as sample one which is “it’s difficult to sail a ship with two completely different captains” and that’s what my mom always told me.
"About the cross cultural or cross religion relationship, I am totally fine with the cross cultural relationship because many of my acquaintance are having a relationship or either get married with a foreigner."
DeleteNext week's blog articles will include one on "international marriage".
This article is pretty interesting. In my sight, “bule” is just a foreigner. My father is a member of Rotary International Organization, We always have “bule” every years. I haven’t seen any negative influences. Instead , they are here to learn some culture of Indonesia. In this case, what I mean is everything depends on the people. There are some kind of jerk “bule” but also there are some kind of nice “bule”.
ReplyDeleteAbout the cross cultural relationship, I honestly don’t really mind. I’ve been in strange-relationship with foreigner, I can’t say that we were dating but we were so close. I told my Mom about this and she said that as long as the “bule” has some respect to your culture and nice, it’s fine. And I also agree with my Mom. Actually it’s fun to have a relationship with “bule”. We can learn their culture and we can share new things.
"We always have “bule” every years."
DeleteWhat exactly happens when you "have" them?
I am in an agreement to the cross-cultural and cross-religious relationship. I don't take that as a bad thing. In my case, my parents are very open minded so they allow me to have relationship or later to marry any guy that I choose (in terms of religions). And I never have to think twice about difference in religion or ethnic. Even now, I am in a relationship with a guy with different religion and ethnic.
ReplyDeleteBut I don't really agree with the characteristics that they have about “bule.” I don't think that we can judge those behaviors as negative things. For example that “bule” can't eat chilly. It's really not a negative thing, just because they're not used to. The same like Jogja people, most of them can't eat spicy food. Is that a bad thing? No.
I agree with Lisa's comment that said it's also due to the experience made with “bule.” Just because one or two “bule” act arrogantly to them then they consider all “bule” are arrogant. Like now, I think that some of the exchange students seem to be arrogant because they are always in groups. But I also consider that they want to be in their safe zone, same like all of us, so I don't judge all “bule” as arrogant.
"Like now, I think that some of the exchange students seem to be arrogant because they are always in groups."
DeleteDon't the Indonesian IUP students also tend to move around and sit together in 'friendship groups' in their everyday campus life? I deliberately mix students up for activities in class. I wonder how much perceived arrogance exchange students display in these "international" pairs or groups of three or four students?
Why not do the survey yourselves?
ReplyDeletehttp://stujay.com/indonesian-culture-survey/
Dutch, Norwegian and German students are forbidden to do it!
What do you think about westerners or foreigners? Indonesians called them a ‘Bule’. Indonesians thought, many westerners had the positive and negative side. I agreed with the result of the survey about Indonesians assumption. I had same assumption about a ‘Bule’, they are more developed, open minded, neutral culture, good looking, and live for the future. Because of this reason, I want to get married with a foreigner. I didn’t have a problem with cross cultural relationship, but I had a problem with cross-religious relationship. Why? A religion took an important part in the marriage. If the couple had the different religion, they would get difficulty to keep their relationship. Maybe, they couldn’t educate their children with the same way. They had different perspective to see and solve a problem. In the other case, I could find a couple with the different religion and they could keep their marriage. I thought a ‘Bule’ or an Indonesians are still the same. We should respect the foreigner. Someone says “Don’t judge a book by the cover”.
ReplyDelete“Bule”, for me it’s just the name for calling foreign people, not a negative meaning. If the people said that Bule means an albino people because they have white skin, just ignore it, perhaps they are just envy with the foreign with fair skin. Indonesian people want to have a fair skin, but basically they have a dark skin, sometimes they will get jealous if someone has the fair skin. Having fair skin is not an albino. Albino is different. Albino is a pigmentary disorder. Albino’s skin is extremely white until the hair is also white.
ReplyDeleteFrankly speaking, I adore Western people, they are open-minded and one thing that I like is they have a pointed nose. So the girls are always beautiful and the boys are cool in their own way. Most of them are tall, their legs are long. I love to see them.
They respect about the culture and the cleanliness. We can see in the other countries like Australia, Europe, and America that in that country, people walking from their house to their destinations because of the fresh air and the cities are neat. There are the places for people to walk. Comparing with Indonesia, everybody has his own vehicle like motorcycle or car. Pollution is everywhere and there is no place for people to walk.
But I agree if foreign people should know a little bit about Indonesian culture if they stay in Indonesia, due to the different in the culture. For example, we have to call the older people “Bapak” or “Ibu” not just calling their name. People also have to dress properly, because of some people like to stare at you if you just wear improper clothes. I know that there is no problem in abroad, but it is different in Indonesia. You will be gossiped by others if you dressed improper.
About the cross cultural relationship, for me it is no problem as long as we respect another. We can learn about the good culture from western, and the partner also can learn a good culture from Indonesia.
Foreigners or westerns or simply called in Indonesia as Bule are admired by most of Indonesian people. By their look, Bule is attractive because they have pointy nose, blue or hazel eyes (which is so pretty in my opinion) and white skin. Somehow, that makes Indonesian people prefer marrying Bule to Indonesian people. In some of Indonesian people’s opinion, they said that marrying a Bule can make your future children will be more good looking because they soon will have white skin, pointy nose, and pretty blonde hair. But sometimes this kind of assumption grows what we call Xenosentrism which means proud of others ethnic have than what we have.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kamilia’s comment above. Cross-cultural relationship is a common thing right now and I didn’t have a problem with that. I think cross-cultural relationship is something unique, because it’s about understanding and respect each other’s differences. But, I have a problem with cross-religion relationship. Religion is something we believe in our life and marriage is related to commitment. Religion plays important role in marriage and sometimes it may cause some problems because of religion matters.
I found this article interesting. When “Has bad taste in women – can’t tell a ‘good looking’ or ‘good’ woman from a ‘less than good’ one” is in the negative side, I laughed a little in the inside haha
ReplyDeleteI mean, what’s wrong with that? How it could be a bad thing? Everyone has their own criteria. It’s up to them to choose their dream lady. And you can’t say someone is not pretty, because pretty has different meanings.
And, I have a little problem with how “bule” gets dress. Sometimes, I found that they dressed inappropriately. They tend to bring their culture to Indonesia, which is very different, and most of Indonesian can’t accept that. In my opinion, it’s better for them to get dress as Indonesian do, no matter how hot here.
In my opinion, it’s fine for me to let my child marry a foreigner. I don’t feel that it would give a bad influence or something; besides it gives a better appearance for the next generation, maybe. Haha
To have a cross-religion relationship, I think it’s fine. Religion is something that we belief, it won’t be a problem as long as we can respect him/her. But maybe, it’s better to have the same religion, because it might feel more comfortable to be able to pray together.
I don’ agree with some states in the negative sides of what Indonesian says about expats. First state is “refuse to try and understand Indonesian culture”, this state is very different with the fact in Indonesia, and it’s not a new thing anymore that more expats are now learning about our culture (Indonesian culture). Instead, sometimes they know much better than us (Indonesian) about our own culture.
ReplyDeleteSecond state is for the “only eats bland food”, we can’t blame them for this thing. I remember my American teacher told me, when his first time in Indonesia, he found it difficult to find food that matched with his tongue, food here are too sweet and salty for him. He said that for them the food they usually eat, the bland one, is already has the taste. Vegetables don’t need too much salt and other seasoning when they cooked because they already have their own taste; it’s also happen in chicken, meat, fish, and others. Well in my opinion, instead of saying this as the negative thing from expats, I prefer to think this thing as something that we should do. How they eat is a healthy one right? Also sometimes, we don’t know what the original taste of a food is because we use too many seasonings.
Basically, some Indonesian see the things (in negative sides) as negative things, it is because of the different point of view, culture, and habit between Indonesian people and expats. For me, although we may disagree with what the expats do or think, we can’t judge it as bad thing. Difference is created not for become the source of misunderstanding but so that we appreciate each other.
Indonesians who still think that way about foreigners (especially the Caucasian ones) are mostly those who aren’t really exposed to the presence of foreigners. I personally find the survey, especially the table that lists negative thoughts about foreigners, is a little unfair. It’s like judging them right away without even knowing anything about them.
ReplyDeleteJust because their habits aren’t similar with ours doesn’t mean that they are inappropriate or anything. Even the term “Bule”, I think, is a bit offensive and racist. I have an American friend who used to study here for a year and she was offended to be called “Bule”.
These negative thoughts on westerners are simply a form of cultural misunderstanding. For us Indonesians, we should not label them to be bad and inappropriate right away, we have to understand that they are foreigners and their cultures are different. Don’t use our behaving standards on them because that wouldn’t be fair. As for the foreigners, to avoid these judgments, they have to at least prepare themselves before visiting Indonesia. This preparation is needed because not all people here would want to bother to try to understand foreign cultures and tend to judge them right away.
I found that this article is really interesting. I agree with the survey about foreigners above, but not every point. Everybody has negative and positive sides. In my opinion, bule or foreigner is someone who has blonde or brown hair, blue or green eyes, pointed nose and also fair skin. I like the way they think and talk. I think they’re open-minded. Maybe some of them are a little bit arrogant and selfish, but that’s fine. I don’t really care about atheist. Maybe, it’s kind of weird in Indonesia, but that’s what they choose to believe and we can’t judge them. And also I agree with “What Foreigners Need to Know when Working and Living in Indonesia” survey. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, foreigners need to know and learn about Indonesia. About relationship, I don’t mind with cross-cultural relationship. But, I think it’s going to be hard for cross-religious relationship. Not only for the couple but also for the family and the children. If they marry and then have children, I think the children will be confused. And also they can’t guide each other. For me, it’s better to marry a man in same religion.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Positive and Negative table, I think that the Indonesians who think that way of bules are the ones who judge from the outside rather than the inside and also by them comparing both cultures. What is normal for a bule could be considered bad for Indonesians such as ‘free sex’ or ‘has bad taste in women- can’t tell a ‘good looking’ or ‘good’ woman from a ‘less than good’ one (statement made me chuckle by the way haha).I also don’t think that every single bule is like what is stated on the table.
ReplyDeleteOn how do you feel about cross-cultural/ cross religious relationships? Would you allow your child marry a foreigner or someone of a different religion?
I accept cross cultural relationships or marriage because in my opinion, marriage is based on the commitment. But when it comes to religion, it’s more about who you are and what you believe in. Religion is one of the important roles in a person’s life and you are in a cross religious relationship, one person will start questioning and usually ends up as a conflict.
In the end of the day, I think it’s better to marry a man/women of the same culture and religion so that it won’t complicate things in the middle.
I personally feel that this article is very interesting and very relatable to most of my international friends who have lived in Indonesia for a long period of time (whether it is for studies, work or long holiday). I do agree with the article to a large extend that, if you are a foreigner in Indonesia it is very important to learn, not only Indonesian language, but also it’s culture in order to be successful and well respected. Without doubt the reason for learning Indonesia language is to enhance communication. Countries like Philippines and Hong Kong are already using English as the medium of their education in public school; as such this explains why there are so many people who are able to speak English in these Asian countries. On the contrary there are only 20% of Indonesians who are able to speak basic English and only 5% are able to speak a proper standard English. Due to this fact, learning Indonesia language is very necessary for foreigners in order to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.
ReplyDeleteNext, learning Indonesian culture is also a very important factor in order to be successful while staying in Indonesia. Indonesia has one of the richest cultural history in the world and we are still very much attached to it. For example, caring for the needy, filial piety and prioritizing God above all. If, as a foreigner, they do not learn our culture properly, they can be deemed as disrespectful and there would be some unhappiness amongst the two groups.
I’ve lived in Singapore for almost 11 years and the foreigners often referred as ‘ang moh’ over there and I think, as a foreigner, it would much easier to adapt to Singapore than Indonesia. One of the reasons being, everybody in Singapore is able to speak English and the second reason is that, Singaporeans is pretty liberated society due to western influence. I’m not saying that we are not rich in culture, but we are very open minded to see other people’s perspective on our culture.
As business and economics are growing in Indonesia very rapidly, more and more expats are coming to Indonesia to work and to live. In some point, leaving in someone else’s country, you have to respect their own cultures and beliefs. Another good point, if you also can learn or at least know about their values, ideology, and history. The negative opinion about expats living in Indonesia can’t be defines as true or false. In my opinion, it is based on people’s assumptions and opinions; it’s not a matter of fact. Even if it is, it’s not something that people can generalize. You cant generalize people just because one opinion or you’re experiencing negative things. People are different; not all is the same. The thing is, as long as they are doing good to you and do not harm you, let all the negative opinions just be an opinion.
ReplyDeleteI think the terms "bule" in Indonesia doesn't mean a deragotory terms for foreigners, indeed the datas were taken from a survey but Indonesian's doesn't really consider only the foreigners who has "white skin" as a bule. Some people often called japanese as "bule jepang", we just have an "endearing" terms which call foreigners as bule. And for the negative side of the survey I think most of them are correct, Indonesians tend to judge foreigners lifestlye from movies. If an Indonesian watch too much movies which have drugs in it, they could think that most of the foreigners are free using drugs. Especially Indonesians who don't get much education, or people from the villages will judge foreigners from the article they read or from the movies they watched.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the chart that show what foreigners need to do in Indonesia, please don't think that Indonesia as terrorist coutry, even though there are a lot of terrorism happened in Indonesia. Most Indonesians are sensitive people, they don't like to lose their face in front of a lot of people, therefore they want to be respected. Indonesians in some places or province will think negatively about the way the foreigners dress, some Indonesians don't like seeing people who wear clothes that show off their body parts, I personallly don't understand why they think that way though. So for female foreigners, just don't strolling around with mini skirts.
It will be a long talk when we talk about how Indonesian treated Bule or something like that. We know in daily life, when there are some foreigners passing by, people will looking at them from top to toe. Maybe they do that because foreigners or we used to call it Bule has a completely different physical appearances compared to Indonesian people. Their white skin, blue eyes, blonde hair, and tall body make them look really different with other people. I’m pretty interested about the negative side of Bule that wrote in this article especially the selfish and arrogant. Well personally, I think they sometimes show that selfish side and that’s completely different with Indonesian that mostly thinks about the other person. But it’s normal; they have different culture with us.
ReplyDeleteAnd about the cross-cultural / cross-religious relationships, I don’t really agree. In my religion, we’re not allowed to have a boyfriend or husband from different religion. It will be better if they change their religion to our religion or otherwise.
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ReplyDeleteThese are actually true about what Indoensian’s really think about ‘bule’ or westerners, but we all have to understand if not all Indonesian people have the same thoughts about it. At first when reading through the list of Indoensian’s perpective towards positive and negative sides of people considering as bule maybe sound funny but also very judgmental, suc as: selfish, look down on other cultures, arrogant, albino, dirty, smells, has free sex and so on.
ReplyDeleteBut Lucky me, my view about westerners are not as harsh as in the article mentioned above. I have different view about bule, When I noticed what most likely westerners behave, the first things in my mind they were very ekspressive and being what actually they are. Because they can express their feelings and thoughts naturally without worrying about what people said unlike most of Asian that are too concerned with other people's said. On the other hand I’m very impressed of westerners who live in Indoensia that still bring their good habits keeping the cleanliness of sorrounding more than what Indonesian people could do. They keep the surroundings absolutely clean and do not throw even a single bit of paper on the road, in parks or at public places. After that, based on my personal observation most westerners are professional in what they are doing, they can separate between their personal feelings and problems beween their professional lives. Finally, it’s better for us to change our view about other people that seems disrespectful. Because not all the things seem “bad” are exatcly “bad”.
It is inappropriate to name foreigner as ‘Bule’ and I think this as prejudiced as when Chinese ethnic - Indonesian to be called ‘Cina’. It is embarrassing to learn that we are Indonesian who claim ourselves as polite society and friendly but forgot to respect other culture and diversity. At this stage, in my opinion these attitudes of stereotyping foreigners into certain behaviors are not acceptable anymore. Racism never bring any good, we all know that.
ReplyDeleteBut often I think where all of this antipathy came from? does Indonesian really mean as racialist? or because Indonesian society is a narrow-minded? My conclusion; I blame on those days when colonialism offensive took place. Unconsciously, we still associate foreigners, mostly who have Caucasian figure or Dutch looks alike, with opportunist and manipulative or simply dangers. We are still alarmed by what we learnt from our history, i guess. Sure, now we are ready to move on, but 350 years occupation and slavery experience will require some healing times, too. So no, no, no,….I don’t think we meant racism or unable to accept dissimilarity. With technology leap, differences are becoming too little in these days, as easier contacts will carry better stage of understanding and assimilation. With education, we open our mind to another way of living than us. We understand the urge of thinking global as we wants to be part of global society. Furthermore, it is our nature to look after our guess and I do not think we are demanding our culture to be implemented all over, although basic understanding will be appreciated. As far as it doesn't hurt our values, we present our respect in return. Towards those listed negative judgmental; it was disturbing to read through that and i don’t think those 51 opinion-taken are represent most of our attitudes in seeing Westerner.
As I read along this article, I found it interesting. In my opinion, ‘Bule’ is western foreigners who have white skin tone, long and pointed nose, and generally they are tall (taller than Indonesians). Those are my physical opinions for them, and my other opinions about bule are; they are open-minded, think of futures, and independent, and I do not so agree with some of negative statements above, because I think that, not all of western foreigners are like that. I mean, there are some varied people. Some Bules may be like that, but I believe that some others are not. I have experienced it once, some Bules truly wanted to learn Indonesian cultures, they wanted to know about it. They asked me so many questions about Indonesian cultures; how to speak to elder people, how to greet people, and etc. And about the cross-culture marrying, I think cross-culture marrying its sounds pretty cool. Back then it was so rare, most of Indonesian parents want their children to get married with Indonesians too, and prohibit them to marry with foreigners. But these days, there are a lot of people who do the cross-culture marrying, and I think it works. I mean some people may think that they would probably ended up in divorce and stuff, but I think it will work as long as they have a same faith and belief, and they have to appreciate their differences.
ReplyDeleteBule as far as I know is not harmful nor offensive. It is by no means derogative term. People who thinks it is an insult clearly don't know what they are talking about. The word itself in Javanese literally means albino, which is why some of the white people do not like to be called bule. All of the white people of European descent is usually referred to as "Bule".
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid I always found bule attractive. The girls are pretty, very pretty, while the boys are very handsome. And I used to think that every bule is very loaded, knowing that they can afford going abroad. But as I got older and older, I started to grasp the point that they are not always loaded, they can afford going abroad and travelling because they have planned it since long and been saving money. They attractive part though, is not changing. They’re all mesmerizing.