The Economist: LEADER COLUMN
Asia's lonely hearts
Women are rejecting marriage in Asia. The social implications are serious
![](http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20110820_LDP001_0.jpg)
Twenty years ago a debate erupted about whether there were specific “Asian values”. Most attention focused on dubious claims by autocrats that democracy was not among them. But a more intriguing, if less noticed, argument was that traditional family values were stronger in Asia than in America and Europe, and that this partly accounted for Asia's economic success. In the words of Lee Kuan Yew, former prime minister of Singapore and a keen advocate of Asian values, the Chinese family encouraged “scholarship and hard work and thrift and deferment of present enjoyment for future gain”.
On the face of it his claim appears persuasive still. In most of Asia, marriage is widespread and illegitimacy almost unknown. In contrast, half of marriages in some Western countries end in divorce, and half of all children are born outside wedlock. The recent riots across Britain, whose origins many believe lie in an absence of either parental guidance or filial respect, seem to underline a profound difference between East and West.
Yet marriage is changing fast in East, South-East and South Asia, even though each region has different traditions. The changes are different from those that took place in the West in the second half of the 20th century. Divorce, though rising in some countries, remains comparatively rare. What's happening in Asia is a flight from marriage (see the longer version article).
Marriage rates are falling partly because people are postponing getting hitched. Marriage ages have risen all over the world, but the increase is particularly marked in Asia. People there now marry even later than they do in the West. The mean age of marriage in the richest places—Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong—has risen sharply in the past few decades, to reach 29-30 for women and 31-33 for men.
A lot of Asians are not marrying later. They are not marrying at all. Almost a third of Japanese women in their early 30s are unmarried; probably half of those will always be. Over one-fifth of Taiwanese women in their late 30s are single; most will never marry. In some places, rates of non-marriage are especially striking: in Bangkok, 20% of 40-44-year old women are not married; in Tokyo, 21%; among university graduates of that age in Singapore, 27%. So far, the trend has not affected Asia's two giants, China and India. But it is likely to, as the economic factors that have driven it elsewhere in Asia sweep through those two countries as well; and its consequences will be exacerbated by the sex-selective abortion practised for a generation there. By 2050, there will be 60m more men of marriageable age than women in China and India.
The joy of staying single
Women are retreating from marriage as they go into the workplace. That's partly because, for a woman, being both employed and married is tough in Asia. Women there are the primary caregivers for husbands, children and, often, for ageing parents; and even when in full-time employment, they are expected to continue to play this role. This is true elsewhere in the world, but the burden that Asian women carry is particularly heavy. Japanese women, who typically work 40 hours a week in the office, then do, on average, another 30 hours of housework. Their husbands, on average, do three hours. And Asian women who give up work to look after children find it hard to return when the offspring are grown. Not surprisingly, Asian women have an unusually pessimistic view of marriage. According to a survey carried out this year, many fewer Japanese women felt positive about their marriage than did Japanese men, or American women or men.
At the same time as employment makes marriage tougher for women, it offers them an alternative. More women are financially independent, so more of them can pursue a single life that may appeal more than the drudgery of a traditional marriage. More education has also contributed to the decline of marriage, because Asian women with the most education have always been the most reluctant to wed—and there are now many more highly educated women.
No marriage, no babies
The flight from marriage in Asia is thus the result of the greater freedom that women enjoy these days, which is to be celebrated. But it is also creating social problems. Compared with the West, Asian countries have invested less in pensions and other forms of social protection, on the assumption that the family will look after ageing or ill relatives. That can no longer be taken for granted. The decline of marriage is also contributing to the collapse in the birth rate. Fertility in East Asia has fallen from 5.3 children per woman in the late 1960s to 1.6 now. In countries with the lowest marriage rates, the fertility rate is nearer 1.0. That is beginning to cause huge demographic problems, as populations age with startling speed. And there are other, less obvious issues. Marriage socialises men: it is associated with lower levels of testosterone and less criminal behaviour. Less marriage might mean more crime.
Can marriage be revived in Asia? Maybe, if expectations of those roles of both sexes change; but shifting traditional attitudes is hard. Governments cannot legislate away popular prejudices. They can, though, encourage change. Relaxing divorce laws might, paradoxically, boost marriage. Women who now steer clear of wedlock might be more willing to tie the knot if they know it can be untied—not just because they can get out of the marriage if it doesn't work, but also because their freedom to leave might keep their husbands on their toes. Family law should give divorced women a more generous share of the couple's assets. Governments should also legislate to get employers to offer both maternal and paternal leave, and provide or subsidise child care. If taking on such expenses helped promote family life, it might reduce the burden on the state of looking after the old.
Asian governments have long taken the view that the superiority of their family life was one of their big advantages over the West. That confidence is no longer warranted. They need to wake up to the huge social changes happening in their countries and think about how to cope with the consequences.
If you find this topic interesting, this article HERE goes into more detail. It is taken from the same edition of The Economist.
I think this article illustrates a change that has also happened in the western countries centuries ago. Women see themselves more and more as an individual person that can also exist and live without a husband on her side who earns the living. With the increase of the emancipation the once only possible way of life, getting married and founding a family, is to be called in question. The decrease of people getting married in Asia is therefore not a too surprising development. But indeed, the family is valued very high in all Asian countries and the decline of marriages may be an indicator for an even deeper societal and cultural upheaval. Nevertheless I don´t think that these “Asian values” are going to be lost as they are deeply embedded in the culture of these countries. The emancipation is just a normal development caused by higher education and globalization and thus has to be taken into account by a modern government by creating for example a new system of social protection as mentioned in the article.
ReplyDelete"I think this article illustrates a change that has also happened in the western countries centuries ago."
DeleteI am not sure I agree that the changes we are discussing here happened "centuries ago" in western countries. If you said "decades", maybe I would concur.
"I am not sure I agree with you..." is a polite way of saying "I disagree with you"!
Women are extremely complicated creatures that no one can really understand themselves. Indeed most women will agree, if they don't even understand why they are so emotionally labile. On the other hand, men and women speak differently as well as think differently. According to London School of Economics psychologist Dr. Satoshi Kanazawa, “women are always overwhelmed with choices, whether it is to further their education, earn a living and provide for their parents or siblings, marry or not, and have family or not.”
ReplyDeleteSomeday, I ever met one of my mom’s friend who is unmarried and has chosen not to have children for career reasons. But she looks very happy with her decisions. As we know, in Eastern culture especially in Indonesia marriage is always about norm and tradition. As society has changed, modern women want to explore and create opportunities for themselves, because basically either women or men are ambitious. Nowadays, marriage is unnecessary in modern society as it was in past times. For me, married or not it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t have to be so difficult. Absolutely, it depends on what women actually want. Just let them determine their future.
"Indeed most women will agree, if they don't even understand why they are so emotionally labile."
DeleteI have met lots of women who are not "emotionally labile".
"According to London School of Economics psychologist Dr. Satoshi Kanazawa, 'women are always overwhelmed with choices, whether it is to further their education, earn a living and provide for their parents or siblings, marry or not, and have family or not.' ”
I disagree with Dr Kanazawa's use of the word "overwhelmed". Women certainly need to juggle options in a way that is different to men, and they can be "challenged" by this, some may even be "overwhelmed" by it, but his choice of this word makes his generalization sound condescending.
"Overwhelmed" means 'rendered powerless especially by an excessive amount or profusion of something.' At a time when women are clearly becoming more powerful and more in control of their options, I don't think it's true to suggest, as Dr Kanazawa does, that "women are always overwhelmed with choices". "Always"? Are you sure you have quoted him correctly?
Note how I did not use a full stop after "Dr". This is because I am British!
See here: http://www.englishforums.com/English/DrDr/pkjwb/post.htm
" I disagree with Dr Kanazawa's use of the word "overwhelmed". Women certainly need to juggle options in a way that is different to men, and they can be "challenged" by this, some may even be "overwhelmed" by it, but his choice of this word makes his generalization sound condescending."
Delete" Overwhelmed means 'rendered powerless especially by an excessive amount or profusion of something.' At a time when women are clearly becoming more powerful and more in control of their options, I don't think it's true to suggest, as Dr Kanazawa does, that "women are always overwhelmed with choices". "Always"? Are you sure you have quoted him correctly?"
Thank you so much Mr Coen for correcting my english. Honestly, sometimes I'm not sure what the word I use really means? however, it also motivates me to learn more about english. Maybe next time I have to be careful to quote someone's words, or better do not doing it, especially when I feel doubt it's true or not. Because, I've tried hard to remember what exactly Dr Kanazawa said on the article that I ever read two years ago in my father's room.
Women nowadays are different from back then in the 60’s or 70’s. The era of globalization has brought up a major change to the lifestyle of Asian females. Here in Asia, women are expected to marry, quit their job, have babies, do housework, and tend to the husband. Just as The Marxism theory of sociology said; the husband is the bourgeoisie (the one who rule) while the wife is the proletariat (the one who must serve the bourgeoisie). However, due to the advancement of education, technology, and medical information in Asia, women chose to marry later or be forever single. Through these advancements, they learned that women are now capable of earning their own money for their own living, and the existence of children or husband may burden them economically, and obstruct their way up to the career ladder. Many developed countries such as Japan, and Singapore experienced a decline in marriage, resulting to a decline in birth rate as well.
ReplyDelete"The era of globalization has brought up a major change to the lifestyle of Asian females."
DeleteTwo thoughts:
1. I think you mean "brought about" [i.e. to cause] rather than "brought up" which means something different. Examples: "Did you and Lina talk about Dr Kanazawa's ideas?" "No, she didn't bring it up." And: "I shouldn't have brought up the issue of her ex-boyfriend. She became hostile and our chat ended abruptly."
2. Your use of the word "females" in your second sentence caught my attention. Have a read of the article at the link below and see what you think.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/female-or-woman/
I do agree to this article because as all of us can see nowadays women are getting more and more powerful in every aspect, they became more recognized all around the world. For example; Oprah, Sri Mulyani, and any other woman that’s powerful and also influential to the world. And because of this emancipation of women they will reconsider their choice to get married in a younger age. Unlike in the past women tends to get married faster like in the age of 24 or 25 but now they became more career oriented rather than housewife oriented, and thus making the number of marriage and population in Asia’s to slow down. And the impact of this event is definitely the under population problem. Like in Singapore their fertility rate are very low that even the experts in demography are starting to worried about their current population as it could leads to insufficient labour, tax revenue and also the so called brain drain. Brain drain refers to a situation where the young generation of population are going out of a certain area and leaving only the old people which are not productive. And with this problem it will also making that certain area to be a dead city as there are no young labour working, and thus this area will also suffer from declining number of public services like busses, hospitals, grocery stores, etc.
ReplyDeleteSingapore has tried to revive the marriage but the result is still not very effective to pulling up their fertility rate. Their solution was giving out subsidies to the family that want to start younger, they giving like subsidies for education for the first child or a decrease of tax if they have more than 2 children in the family. But those efforts have not been successful to pulling up their fertility rate as the women have a mindset that of they become a housewife they won’t be able to pursue their career as they must work at home to take care of the family. In my opinion to solve this under population phenomenon is to slowly changing the women mindset into the old one by using the media, government, and any other instruments. As we know that media and government are closely related to capitalism as the main owners are actually the bourgeoisie. We actually are being brain washed by them through media and later on being injected by the capitalist paradigm. I think if we can use the same methods to make women to alter their way of thinking. But in the other hand this process will take a very long time as we are trying to slip in new way of thinking to the women where they think that kind of life is very disadvantaging.
"For example; Oprah, Sri Mulyani, and any other woman that’s powerful and also influential to the world."
DeleteI think we have to be careful about extrapolating too much from the success of famous women. Great Britain had a powerful queen in the 16th century but I am not sure it had much influence on the everyday lives of women in her country. Indeed, it was almost another 500 years until women got the right to vote in Great Britain.
I think the decline of marriages in Asia is mainly due to emancipation. The number of educated women rises, so they are able to earn enough money to make a living and don’t need a husband any more to take care of them. As it becomes more and more important to Asian women to have a good job, the career plans get more important to them than having children. In Asia, society tends to accept women working and having children at the same time less than in Western countries. Therefore there is a lack of childcare facilities which look after they young children when their mothers are working. In addition, Asian women are more emancipated than before, which leads to the fact that they are more likely to pursue their own happiness instead of doing what their families want. Parents find it important that their daughters get married because society expects women to do so. Quite often the parents in Asian countries, in some way, still chose their daughter’s future husband. As women become more and more self-determined they nowadays rather contradict their parents and decide not to marry only for the sake of being married. They might wait until they find a person they really love and want to marry instead of having an unhappy marriage. And finding that person may take some time.
ReplyDelete"They might wait until they find a person they really love and want to marry instead of having an unhappy marriage. And finding that person may take some time."
DeleteThe prominence and significance of love and romance in marriage may have been more emphasized in western culture in the past. Marriage is an economic arrangement for creating a stable domestic environment for workers and for creating and raising new workers! Arranged marriages were almost always about making sound decisions in terms of economics and uniting families. If love blossomed after that, all well and good. The significance of love and romance in marriage is now growing in Asian culture.
I have read about this in a book, "After Orchard" by Margareta Astaman. Margareta said that mostly Singaporean rejecting marriage. Opposite from Indonesia where there are many couples (mostly young couples) who want to married as soon as possible. Most of Singaporean are in productive age so they race to raise their carrier. They rarely think about marriage or having child. Because having child is a troublesome for them. They must have time for the children, raise them, and there will be more cost if they have children. Singapore Government promise that they will give subsidy for those who have children, especially more than 2. They will also give nannies to take care of their children. But still, the Singaporean not interested to married and having children. This is a serious case because Singapore population is very few. If there are no regeneration, there won't be any indigenous Singaporean to lead their country. That's why the government give special treatment for this case and will do anything to raise the amount of Singapore population.
ReplyDelete"This is a serious case because Singapore population is very few."
Delete"Population" is an uncountable noun, so we cannot use "few" or "very few", just as we CANNOT say things like "I have very few water" or "I felt few happiness during the Simfoni week". In both cases we should use LITTLE.
"This is a serious case because Singapore's population is very small."
But is this true? Singapore has a bigger population than such countries as Turkmenistan, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, Croatia, and Kuwait. It has a population more or less the same size as Jordan, Libya, Denmark, Finland, and Slovakia. When we talk about the number of people who live in a place, perhaps population density is more useful. Singapore is the third most densely populated country in the world. Where would all the extras babies that the government wants go? Is there enough room?
Women are actually hard workers. Nowadays, many women sit behind the chair as important persons in company. Many women now prefer working than marrying to someone. And I honestly not agree with some elders’ opinion from my family that you (woman) better to marry to someone after you graduate, not working. I just totally disagree with that opinion. Because I think women also need to work, not just marry to someone, have children and work as a good housewife. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t want to marry and have children. Having children to increase the nation’s population is good as long as we can raise them well.
ReplyDeleteI’ve heard a story from tour leader when I visited South Korea last year. He told me that the situation in South Korea is the same as Singapore as Alisha said. The government will give subsidy to family who just had a child. I heard raising a child in South Korea is expensive and if I am not mistaken, some child skip kindergarten and attend elementary school. Both Singapore and South Korea are really opposite to Indonesia. Because in Indonesia, the government wants to depress the birth and in other countries, especially the developed country like Singapore and South Korea wants to increase the birthrate.
"I think women also need to work, not just marry to someone, have children and work as a good housewife. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t want to marry and have children."
DeleteLet's hope you are not "overwhelmed" by your choices and decisions. [See my reply to Lina above.]
Well, I don't, sir. Personally, I don't want to immediately marry to someone after graduate from university, because that mean I wasted my time and money to study in higher level. There's a mom of a woman I know and said to me that a daughter should immediately marry to someone after graduate from university. And I completely disagree with her statement and typical mindset about a woman.
Delete"I don't want to immediately marry to someone after graduate from university, because that mean I wasted my time and money to study in higher level. There's a mom of a woman I know and said to me that a daughter should immediately marry to someone after graduate from university."
DeleteHere are some personal thoughts in response to, or triggered by, what you wrote.
1. When I arrived at university, it felt like my friends and I were all taking a leap into the unknown ~ or, at least, starting a completely new chapter in life. High school era romances petered out. New friends were made. New hobbies were tried. New challenges and responsibilities replaced the old ones. Then, when another "leap into the unknown" was required, after graduating, some of us handled it in a similar way. However, there were others who perhaps felt more uncertain or insecure about the future. Quite a large number got married to their college sweethearts very soon after graduation, preferring to start the completely new chapter in their lives with a partner alongside them.
2. I am not sure I agree that money spent on studying at a higher level is necessarily "wasted" if one marries soon after graduating because [a] one can start a career and choose to delay starting a family [my wife and I were married for six years before we had our first child], and [b] I believe that education has value in and of itself as a part of personal, intellectual development, and I don't think we should always evaluate the worth of education in terms of the employment it might or might not lead to. [note: no one is allowed to criticize how many words there are in this sentence!]
3. I fully understand the cultural norms that underpin the obligation to comply with parental wishes. However, personally I believe we have to take responsibility for our own lives and then raise our children to take responsibility for their lives. If we are rushed into making some of the biggest decisions of our lives by doing things according to a timetable of expectations and milestones handed to us by older generations, we may well find that those older generations will tell us it's our own fault ~ and not theirs ~ when our lives go wrong because we followed their timetable and not our own.
I think, this is one of the impact of the equality between men and women. This women emancipation is creating so many great, independent women. Independent women are great, but those who do not want to marry are disastrous? So, who is to blame in this case then? That, I have no idea.
ReplyDeleteBut I think that independent women are in love with their work, have no time to think about committed in relationship. And also the joy of being single means they can stay independent. But, being in marriage means they have to depend on someone, the husbands, and I do not think they see any appeal in this matter. Especially in Asia where the husband is the head of family, the husband speaks, the wife listens, the husband works, the wife cooks at home. (I do not see the appeal of this, either.)
And also being single does not mean you can not have child. Nowadays, bank sperm is so popular, why do not take the advantage of that?
As for me, why would someone want to be in marriage? It means you have to serve other person, your husband, for the rest of your life and your kids also! hah! "pembantu" never in your wildest dream.
My family is Bataks so, marriage is so important to us. Most of Bataks family have expectations that their children marry to fellow Bataks. Marrying to another ethnic is a loss, sometimes they even make another ethnic's surname into Bataks. For Bataks women, marrying too late (i.e. in their 30s) is a shame to the family. My mother always brings that up to me every time she calls me and I was like "Mom, I don't even have a boyfriend and you're telling me this?" IT GETS ON MY NERVE. Making me way more determined about not married........ to Bataks at least. HA.
"And also being single does not mean you can not have child. Nowadays, bank sperm is so popular, why do not take the advantage of that?"
DeleteAre sperm banks popular in Indonesia?
Not at all.
DeleteBut usually those who don't want to marry (but want to have children) usually know about it.
Even I do know about it.
“But those who do not want to marry are disastrous? So, who is to blame in this case then?”
DeleteI think we can blame the modern era? The modern era such as emancipation are changing the culture in the Asian. It makes a lot of independent woman who loves work so much, I guess.
And I agree one thing that, being in marriage means they have to depend on someone, the husbands. And also the article said, women are responsible to serve their husband and taking care of their children and ageing parents. These independent women might double think the advantage of marriage. If they want to work and also taking care of all those stuffs, it would be so extremely tiring, I don’t see anything interesting on that. Some husbands tend to push their wife to be a housewife instead of a working mother. A high-educated woman would definitely reject it.
And you know what? Bataks will force you to take care of your husband and your kids. If something’s not right about them, you’ll be blamed even if it’s not your fault, because the wife is responsible for that.
-Jeka-
Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. This is words that we often heard of. As a woman, I have to admit that women are complicated. Their moods are always changing quickly. Sometimes they feel this then in a minute their feelings will change. It makes the people around them confuse and thinks “what do they really want?”
ReplyDeleteDecades ago, in Indonesia, people consider that women had lower degree than men did. They are not allowed to study that made none of Indonesian women graduated from university at that time. Indonesian people stereotype at that time was woman has to devoted themselves to their husbands and their children and they have to cook and do all the chores things. Because of globalization, those things are changing from time to time. Now, women able to study until they get doctoral degree, they even lead institutions and major corporations in the world. But somehow, there are some people who disagree of these changes. They still think that women have to stay at home and devoted themselves to housewife things. And I think this is wrong. What I’ve read on the book written by Felix Siauw, he stated that men are women equal. What makes them different is the role or duty they have in life. Men to protect the women, and women to be protected by the men. So, I think if a woman wants to get married at 30 something is fine. Because, maybe she wants to build her career or continue their study or we can call it improving her quality and maybe they want to find the Mr. Right so they don’t want to hurry.
"Because of globalization, those things are changing from time to time."
DeleteThis is an incorrect use of the expression "from time to time". I think what you mean is "over time", as in, "things have been changing over time". "From time to time" means "occasionally". Examples: "I call my parents from time to time but not as often as I used to." And: "Malaria seems to have been successfully eradicated in Java although from time to time we hear stories of isolated cases in big cities."
"Now, women able to study until they get doctoral degree, they even lead institutions and major corporations in the world. But somehow, there are some people who disagree of these changes."
Seeing as the changes have already occurred, the word "disapprove" might be more appropriate than "disagree".
"Women are from Venus, men are from Mars. This is words that we often heard of."
DeleteWell, it's the title of a pretty famous book, "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus" by John Gray. Published in 1992, it has sold more than 50,000,000 copies. It has 13 chapters as follows:
Chapter 1: Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus
Chapter 2: Mr Fix-It and the Home Improvement Committee
Chapter 3: Men Go to Their Caves and Women Talk
Chapter 4: How to Motivate the Opposite Sex
Chapter 5: Speaking Different Languages
Chapter 6: Men Are Like Rubber Bands
Chapter 7: Women Are Like Waves
Chapter 8: Discovering Our Different Emotional Needs
Chapter 9: How To Avoid Arguments
Chapter 10: Scoring Points with the Opposite Sex
Chapter 11: How to Communicate Difficult Feelings
Chapter 12: How to Ask for Support and Get It
Chapter 13: Keeping the Magic of Love Alive
If you cannot be bothered to read it, here is a very handy summary:
http://www.wikisummaries.org/Men_Are_From_Mars,_Women_Are_From_Venus
Some people dispute the claims John Gray makes in his books on the differences between the sexes. Here is an example:
http://www.purdue.edu/uns/html4ever/2004/040217.MacGeorge.sexroles.html
Extract: "It turns out men and women aren't from different planets after all, according to research from a Purdue University interpersonal communication expert.
For more than a decade, Americans have bought books and games based on the multimillion dollar industry built around the "Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus" theory, which explains communication differences between men and women as resulting from different gender cultures.
Now, research by Erina MacGeorge, an assistant professor of communication, shows there are small differences between men's and women's comforting skills, but not enough to claim the sexes are their own cultures or come from different planets.
"When it comes to comforting, the Mars-Venus concept is not only wrong, but harmful," MacGeorge says. "For the most part, men and women use, and strongly prefer, the same ways of comforting others – listening, sympathizing and giving thoughtful advice. Yet books like John Gray's 'Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus' and Deborah Tannen's 'You Just Don't Understand' tell men that being masculine means dismissing feelings and downplaying problems. That isn't what most men do, and it isn't good for either men or women."
MacGeorge's study, "The Myth of Gender Cultures: Similarities Outweigh Differences in Men's and Women's Provision of and Responses to Supportive Communication," is the lead article in this month's Sex Roles: A Journal of Research. MacGeorge's article includes three studies. Unlike the anecdotes used to support the gender myth of extreme cultural differences between men and women, MacGeorge's research is based on questionnaires and interviews. Her research sample was 738 people – 417 women and 321 men."
Another critical response to Gray's ideas was published by Julia Wood in 2002. It's entitled "A critical response to John Gray's Mars and Venus portrayals of men and women"
Here is its abstract: "John Gray's Mars and Venus portrayals of women and men are flawed both in terms of what they say and what they do not say. This article demonstrates that some of Gray's key claims about women's and men's communication are inconsistent with the findings of credible, data‐based research. Gray also fails to address the socially constructed nature of differences between women and men and the consequential, material implications that result in inequitable opportunities and circumstances for the sexes. Finally, Gray errs in inviting individuals to abdicate personal responsibility for their attitudes and actions."
Here is another interesting [albeit less academic] response to Gray's famous books.
DeleteA LOVE LETTER TO "DR" GRAY...
Dear “Dr” Gray,
I am writing this letter to share my feelings with you.
1. ANGER: I get annoyed when I read your books. One example is page 104 of Mars and Venus Together Forever. I feel angry when I read that “Doing more so that a woman will have less to do is not the answer to making her happy.” It frustrates me that you acknowledge that “a woman’s work is never done” but your instruction to men is to “initiate conversation and listen” in order to “free her from the urgency to do it all now.” Then after talking “she can accomplish what is humanly possible in a more relaxed manner” while her man sits on his backside.
2. SADNESS: It hurts me to read your portrayal of women as mercurial beings who constantly cycle in and out of a pit (your word is “well”). I feel disappointed when I read books that encourage men to do as little as possible to maintain a relationship. I wanted to tell you that I am a rational yet feeling being who is much more balanced and cerebral than you give me credit for.
3. FEAR: I worry that women will read your book and think that your opinions and stereotypical ideas about relationships are well-researched fact. I shudder to think about unhealthy changes that some people might make in their relationships and/or expectations after reading your publications or attending your seminars.
4. REGRET: I am sorry that I spent my hard-earned money on your books. I want to let all my acquaintances know that there are much better relationship guides on the market than yours!
5. LOVE: I love the fact that I live in America where we have the right to express our opinions. I understand that you are free to make a buck any way you choose. I understand Susan’s need to publish this webpage and I congratulate her courage in doing so and wish her the very best of success in her future.
P.S. The response I would like to hear from you: I will make a concentrated effort to differentiate fact from opinion in any of my future writings, seminars, and talk show appearances. I will sincerely reflect on the possibility that I may have caused emotional harm to some of my readers or seminar participants in presenting my opinions. I will adjust my behavior in the future to act more responsibly.
Sincerely,
Kim Jones
22 May 1998
Sorry, I forgot to give a link to this "love letter". Here it is:
Deletehttp://therebuttalfromuranus.wordpress.com/
It's an interesting blog that is devoted entirely to rebutting John Gray's ideas.
The horrible thing about the gender stereotypes that John Gray projected to the world is that people actually believe in them! When I was little, the saying “Women are from Venus, men are from Mars” was already very popular. That saying went straight into the popular culture at the time, spawning films and many other books about the central metaphor in his book. At that time, I blandly accepted the idea that women and men were entirely different and thus, it was probably permissible to make it as an excuse every time I encountered any problem with people from the opposite sex. However, now I realise that the idea itself is considerably harmful in separating the two genders even further from each other. At a time when feminism is on the rise and when conservative sexist males are feeling ‘threatened’, it is becoming increasingly paramount to shorten the gap before anybody falls into the hole. As such, I agree with Kim Jones that John Gray needs to avert the crisis that he started himself. Nevertheless, I do not think that he is going to do that any time soon, so it is basically up to us to stop believing in gender stereotypes and start embracing the opposite sex as fellow human being instead.
DeleteWhen I read this article, I got the idea that more women are rejecting marriage because of all the work which come along with it. My mom, who has 3 children once told me how hard she is working to care about the household without any maid even though she's not a career woman. That makes me wonder how will a career woman do when they are married and have a child? It must be really hard for them because they need to manage their time for their work and their family. Based on the article, even though the women have jobs in their respective office, they are still expected to manage their household, whereas the men do not.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't mean that I disagree with things like career women, but somehow I think that this kind of equality is tipping the balance off the world. If men and women both want to work, then who’s going to manage the household?
I don’t think that the equality they talked about is wrong, but what is wrong is the paradigm of housewife. Housewife is not dependent on their husband; they are equal. They just have a little different workplace, either in their home or in the office, but both have responsibilities to look for.
"My mom, who has 3 children once told me how hard she is working to care about the household without any maid even though she's not a career woman. "
Delete"to care about" and "to care for" are different.
The expression "to care about" does not suggest action, while "to care for" does. The expression "to take care of" certainly does mean that there is action.
Examples:
"Truly, I do care about the environment but I am too lazy to do anything."
"Oh, well I demonstrate how I care for the environment by separating my rubbish into non-recyclable and recyclable things."
"Don't worry. I will take care of the environment in Yogyakarta once you elect me Governor."
I think the decline in marriage is only affecting the developed countries, not all countries in Asia. Most people in developed countries often see themselves as an individual. Thus there is a small tendency that they will need others’ help, however that is not the only cause. Other plausible cause is living cost in developed country is skyrocketing. Therefore women need to their own income. To have their own income they have to work, to be able to find a job they need a good qualification, to attain good qualification takes much longer time. Hence it will be wasteful for them after attaining qualification to stay at home doing chores everyday.
ReplyDeleteAnother plausible cause is most people in developed country always plan their life for years ahead of them. So they will have a thought the upkeep of having a baby is expensive with the ever-increasing living cost.
Men can also be the culprits that caused the drop of marriage. As the article stated “The mean age of marriage in the richest places … has risen sharply in the past few decades, to reach … 31-33 for men.” Men would prefer to get married late so that they could save some dime for their future family.
Governments has also taken steps to balance the death and born ratio. For instance in Singapore, the Government is willing to pay parents until their children have reached maturity stage. Thus making parents less worried about the expensive upkeep.
"I think the decline in marriage is only affecting the developed countries, not all countries in Asia."
DeleteIt has to do with education and prosperity. Both of these things increase with development. A fall in birth rates is invariably linked to increases in them. So this trend will very often be found in the more developed parts of developing countries.
I guess this is contrary to the statement "human is social being who cannot live alone", more or less they'll eventually look for each other. Marriage is not only about being together creating a peaceful life, prosperous family, and having kids. It's about how we manage to live with each other.. I see the point that some people declare that they could live on their own, but in my opinion it's just the matter of time until they cannot do that by themselves, and start to plea for help. In my religion, God created these whole opposite thing from up and down, front and back, black and white, man and woman, it was created so that both of those things that are different can maintain the balance of this world. That's why, when you buy a drawing pen, you can't just expect that white color and black color are on a different package. They'll literally be in the same package, even if they are separated by the colors. That's just the same like us. Even if there are lots of human being in this world, we will always live in a couple. So, I personally disagree with this statement about marriage decline in Asia.
ReplyDeleteWhat you say is interesting. I think marriage has to be looked at in two different ways. It is of course the family and economic unit into which most children are born and raised. However it is also an arrangement which supports people's personal and emotional development. A childless marriage can be a very happy and fulfilling relationship between two people just like one with children.
DeleteI agree with Lisa Bauer's statement: "I think the decline of marriages in Asia is mainly due to emancipation. The number of educated women rises, so they are able to earn enough money to make a living and don’t need a husband any more to take care of them. As it becomes more and more important to Asian women to have a good job, the career plans get more important to them than having children."
ReplyDeleteMany women don't want to get married probably because of their career in workplace that they've reached. My cousin who's a man said that he wants to marry a woman who will stays at home, taking care of their kids and their house. That means that not every man is willing to have their wives to work, while so many women work so hard to reach their position at workplace and won't leave it just because of marriage.
"My cousin who's a man said that he wants to marry a woman who will stays at home, taking care of their kids and their house."
DeleteThe words 'who's a man" become redundant as soon as you use "he" and say "he wants to marry a woman"!
After "will" [and other modals like can, could, may, might, must, shall, should and would] are followed by the infinitive of the verb [without "to"].
Examples:
She stays at home to take care of the kids.
She doesn't stay at home because her mother helps her.
Her husband could stay at home but he is old fashioned about his role in the family.
Ah, yes, my bad, Sir. Thank you for correcting.
DeleteThere must be several reasons why there is a decline in Asian marriage. I believe that the number of women, who seems to be uninterested to be in a relationship, has risen. It’s mainly caused by the fact that they don’t want children, or a husband that will only slow down their career. But there are ways around this. Women can balance between the crazy hours of work and taking care of her family. It all depends on understanding each other; negotiating and think what’s best for everyone. The key is to find a job with flexible hours and to adjust work hours of both partners. I realize that this is caused by globalization, education, and women emancipation. Women around Asia are now realizing their potential in the society and organizations more than ever. This creates so many opportunities for the to improve their lives. But so improved to the point that more women are neglecting marriage and choose not to all together.
ReplyDelete"I believe that the number of women, who seems to be uninterested to be in a relationship, has risen."
DeleteWhoops. You've got your commas exactly wrong here!
What has risen? Answer: The number of women who seem to be uninterested to be in a relationship. If you put the comma after "women", it makes this answer unclear.
Compare to this:
"The number of women who seem to be uninterested to be in a relationship, I believe, has risen."
oops sorry, i just realized it. thanks! it makes sense now.
DeleteNowadays more asian women are rejecting marriage and pursuing a single life. How did that happen? What causes it? I think most of women in Asia choose being single rather than get married because taking care a child is really hard job because it is requires special accuracy. It is also something activities that wasting a lot of time. Whereas in this era of globalization many women are highly educated and get a nice job also with very high salary. Their commitment to the job make them quite difficult to arrange time if they have a family and a child. Another causes maybe, if you have a family you also needs a big house and it’s cost alot of money. Many women decide to live alone in an apartment with cheap cost rather than having a family with the high costs incurred.
ReplyDeleteDecline in marriage also make a new problem in the country. Because if there is no marriage no babies. So human resources in the country will decrease and will affect jobs. Maybe the company in the country needs workers from overseas to work in the company and it will increase the state spending. The goverment should provide education to women based on this issue so the problem isn’t sustainable.
-anne
"I think most of women in Asia choose being single rather than get married because taking care a child is really hard job because it is requires special accuracy."
DeleteYou should not overstate the situation. We cannot [yet] claim that "most women" choose to be single.
We use "to care" with the preposition "of". Example: "When I lived in Japan, I was a house husband for a year and a half and I took care of my son Henry."
What does "special accuracy" mean in the context of taking care of a child?
My first thought that came out after I read this article is that, this article is true and I also agree with it. Asian women have changed. Education and globalization are two bold factors that contribute for this changing. Because if those two factors were never existed I think Asian women would be like get married on their young age and be housewife.
ReplyDeleteNowaday Asian women are more advanced, they want to have the same right and be treated just as like as men. They want to have career, and now it's in their first place. They are more concerned about their future career, and postponing the marriage. Indeed, they also want to get married and having a family, but work and get their feet on the ground are now their priority; maybe because if they get married early they have yet achieve their dreams, or maybe they are scared of not be able to work anymore once the got married because their husband would not allow them to work, or maybe because Asian women now want to be more independent and get their self out of dependence.
"Education and globalization are two bold factors that contribute for this changing."
DeleteI don't think "bold" is quite the right word. You could choose from "major", "key" or "important".
The preposition we use with the verb "contribute" is "to" not "for".
Examples:
"By the time he was 25, he had been contributing to his pension fund for four years."
"Good morning. Sorry to bother you but would you care to contribute to your local Red Cross branch?"
Women are unique creature. And these days, women become more acknowledge. In asia, Indonesia especially, woman was forced to be housewife only back then and women were taught to be “scared” of man. But now, as time goes by, women realize that they can walk with their own feet. This, no matter how, make they become more pride or who they are and eventually, think that they don’t need man. Also, the responsibilities of marriage these days are so heavy for woman; they must work and also taking care the whole house, including their husband and children. This kind of work is sometimes not being mentioned by men. Finally, it’ll seem useless for woman to get marriage. For me, marriage or not it’s a hard decision. Moreover, the responsibility seems a bit higher for a woman in a marriage. I always admire those who can have their career and marriage at the same time. It only make me realize how woman is a strong creature.
ReplyDeleteMarriage is not a game. I think, couples should think twice before they get married, because marriage is a sacred thing and there are so many factors that have to be considered. And nowadays, there are so many educated people, and this is the emancipation era, where gender is not a matter to get a job or education. Women are smart now; they have high education, they have a view of life, they have a high desire of future prosperity. They will not choose their life partner randomly. They become more selective; they select partner from every aspect maturely. That's why, sometimes women postpone their marriage, otherwise the men still waiting for the women.
ReplyDeleteIn Asia, most of people think that divorce is taboo. That's why, I think, most of couple here postpone their marriage, so they could prepare better about the responsibility after they getting married. Also, career is sometimes a barrier. Some women feel satisfied living independently with their job, but on the other hand, some men forbid their women from working. This kind of controversy can trigger the couple to fight. So, postponing the marriage is sometimes good to prevent household from divorcing. And moreover, some people choose not to get married because they are scared about so many things.
"[M]oreover, some people choose not to get married because they are scared about so many things."
DeleteSuch as what? Your use of the word "moreover" suggests that you have some things in mind other than the ones you have mentioned in your piece of writing. You have mentioned [being scared of] divorce because its taboo, fighting over whether to work or not, not living up to their aspirations [like education and prosperity], not selecting a partner well, and the heavy responsibilities involved in married. And moreover... what?
Too much moreover, I think. Sorry Sir, my bad.
DeleteIt is true that the fact that the article talking about is happening in the developed country in Asia such as Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. And the slackening number of marriage in the developed countries might be a problem in their country. But, in my opinion, the facts that shown by the article doesn’t relevant with the developing country such as China and Indonesia. As we know, China has the biggest number of population in the world while Indonesia in the fourth place. The population growth in Indonesia is much more higher compared to other developing country. In 2012, the population growth in Indonesia is reaching 1.5% meanwhile in other developing country the number of the population growth is under 1%. This fact is supported by the program that created by the government to control the population growth in Indonesia such as Program KB. The effect of this population growth is Indonesia will get crowded and maybe in the future, there will be unbalanced number between the employee needed by the industry and the number of the labor that available. And this will increase the number of unemployment in the future.
ReplyDelete"China has the biggest number of population in the world while Indonesia in the fourth place. The population growth in Indonesia is much more higher compared to other developing country. In 2012, the population growth in Indonesia is reaching 1.5% meanwhile in other developing country the number of the population growth is under 1%."
DeleteAre you sure about this, Richard?
Having looked into it [i.e. data published by the United Nations, CIA World Factbook and the World Bank], I find that the rate of population growth in Indonesia is nearer to 1.15% [putting it more or less the same as the world as a whole] meaning it is about 115th in the world. Meanwhile, the rate of population growth in the People's Republic of China is somewhere around 0.5%. You also state that "in other developing country the number of the population growth is under 1%" but I do not see how the data support this assertion. Here are the population growth rates of some "developing" countries that we can compare with Indonesia on account of their population size and level of economic development:
Brazil 1.26 %
Nigeria 2.27 %
Egypt 1.76 %
Bangladesh 1.67 %
Pakistan 1.84 %
You say: "The effect of this population growth is Indonesia will get crowded and maybe in the future, there will be unbalanced number between the employee needed by the industry and the number of the labor that available."
I put it to you that Indonesia is, in fact, a success story in terms of bring its population growth rate down and under control.
From this article, I find a new problem about marriage. Marriage is not a simple thing. Marriage combines two different people in a unity. We call the unity as a family. I find a fact that a lot of woman in Asia decide to marrying later or not marrying at all. There are some factors, why they postpone their marriage. The first factor, they want to enjoy the single life. As a single woman, they can do anything that they want. They can study until the highest degree or reach the top level in their career. They think a marriage will destroy their goal. If they get married, they will get a baby. They must raise the baby and stay at home. The second factor, they are independent woman. They can fulfill all their needs. What is the effect from this phenomenon? No marriage means no babies. The country needs a new generation in the future. So, a marriage is important. An independent woman still needs a man to make a happy family.
ReplyDeleteGiving birth to a baby need only cause something like a two year break from working. This return to work might be part time or conducted from home. With family support and things like childcare or creches at the workplace, women do not have to sacrifice their opportunities to work on account of having a baby. A full working life lasts about 40 years. This surely means that a balance can be found between child rearing and working? Of course, I am assuming that the family size is small. My wife was the first of seven children [my father-in-law once told me about a government official lecturing him on Family Planning... my father-in-law retorted: "I already have my Family Planning. I plan to have seven children!"]. My mother-in-law certainly had her work cut out for her and she has never been employed by anyone.
DeleteWe can see in many films, people seem don't care about the marriage anymore. Maybe they afraid with the divorce that usually happens or they assume if they have children, it just makes their life become more complicated and harder because they have to take care for their children from baby until the death comes to them. Financial problems may caused the decline of marriage . They afraid if they can not maintain their children . They assume if they are not rich enough, their children would be neglected and can't have a chance to have higher education (from kindergarten until study in university). That's true, they have to afraid if they feel not ready to married because financial problems. Many problems they will face in their future if they do not have higher education or don't have any job. For example, how can they satisfy their need if they don't have enough money? How can they support their children education? How can they live their life? I think there are another reason. Maybe they think if they married too fast, they can't enjoy their live with their friends or even family. It is true if they can't spend their whole time with their friends anymore, but the marriage means you and your husband/wife are ready to make a new life and keep the togetherness forever and always. I agree if people all around the world have to married. It prevents free sex which is forbidden by Allah SWT. As we know, free sex is a big mistake and God is really hates it. It may brings many problems. For example, friends are suddenly talking about you behind your back, and you parents will feel very embarrassed. So, i don't agree if people decline their marriage, but people have their own point of view which is maybe different with me.
ReplyDelete“That's partly because, for a woman, being both employed and married is tough in Asia. Women there are the primary caregivers for husbands, children and, often, for ageing parents; and even when in full-time employment, they are expected to continue to play this role.”
ReplyDeleteI agree with that statement. In my opinion, women in Asia tend to postpone their plan on getting married because they still want to pursue their careers. We’ve all been through high school and now we’re struggling in college. It’s not an easy thing to do. After receiving the degree on the major we take in college and not doing anything with it will be such a waste. It’s also more difficult to be hired in any companies when you’ve already been married. Companies will usually choose the candidates who are still unmarried.
I personally think for these days to be married in such a young age is a huge loss because you will loose many opportunities that you should’ve gotten. Being married is not easy, it comes with a lot of responsibilities and challenges. People should really be prepared mentally, physically, and financially before settling down. Therefore, I think it’s not a bad thing to postpone marriage until you’ve been fully prepared.
Winnie
"It’s also more difficult to be hired in any companies when you’ve already been married."
DeleteThis sounds like you might be talking about divorcees. It might be clearer to say: "It’s also more difficult to be hired in any company when you are already married."
This article discusses the decrease in married couple in Asian country such as Hong Kong and Taiwan. The article mentioned that one factor that leads Asia to this phenomenon is due to the traditional Asian value. As mentioned by Singapore former PM lee, Chinese value teaches us to work hard and save so that we can enjoy our life in the future. Asia is developing exponentially at this very moment and more people are more focused on their work and just have no time or choose not to think about marriage. Indeed as there are more women choosing to be a career woman, the average marriageable age increases all over the world, but the most astonishing part is that more and more people in Asia choose not to get married at all instead of marrying latter. The article also discusses the benefit of not getting married such as not having to do housework for the family, freedom and less pressure to have a baby. I’ve been asking myself whether I should have a kids after marriage in the future, but after reading this article and realize the benefit from staying single, I’m actually considering whether I should get married, whether I should get a boyfriend.
ReplyDelete"I’ve been asking myself whether I should have a kids after marriage in the future, but after reading this article and realize the benefit from staying single, I’m actually considering whether I should get married, whether I should get a boyfriend."
DeleteDon't let my choice of reading material influence you TOO much! It is not my intention to change the course of your life in a drastic way!
I think the article is really true. Nowadays, many people from the develop country in Asia isn’t really care anymore with the marriage. Most of them tried to postpone the marriage, because they want to focus on their job, especially for women. They don’t want to get pregnant and busy to take care of the children. That’s why the develop country such as Singapore right now becomes easier to accept the young generation to be their citizen. That’s caused by the decreasing number of young people and kids in their country, and they were afraid if someday their nation will be filled by the old-people only.
ReplyDeleteFor me, as a female, I think being a mother is our destiny. And, the marriage is important and sacral. But, even though I feel that we should be a proper wife and mom, I don’t want to be just a dependent wife towards my future husband. With the equality of gender in this era, I want to work as well as my husband do. I want to earn money by myself so I’m not going to keep asking my future husband for that. It’s because I think female in this era should be an independent woman in a condition: she remember her other job as a wife and mommy.
"Nowadays, many people from the develop country in Asia isn’t really care anymore with the marriage. Most of them tried to postpone the marriage, because they want to focus on their job, especially for women."
DeleteWe have to be clear about which kinds of women we are talking about. Are we talking about women in big cities with college degrees and salaried employment? Most of the single Indonesian non-graduate working women I have talked to postpone marriage because they are trying to save money for the wedding and for setting up a new household, or they waiting for their fiances to do the same thing. I have met many women who would like to get married as soon as they can but they feel they cannot afford to.
Marriage is a complicated thing. Maybe this mindset is patched to women who do not want to make a relationship or to get married. Usually it is happen to women who already successful in her job. They reach a great position at the office. So they think that they can live without anyone else. If these women get marry, their responsibility added more than before. They have to take care of her husband, children and many more. Beside, her husband probably will give boundary to her to do not take a job to much and focus to their household. No more freedom in her live. Moreover, there is a rule in Indonesia. A couple does not allowed to get a job in the same place. So, if there is a woman who find his boyfriend at her office and they get married, automatically, the one of them must be resign from the office. It is impossible if the man being a jobless. So woman should be give in even the position is higher than her husband. I think it is make sense if nowadays women decided to do not get marriage.
ReplyDeleteBut marriage is important because after we retire someday, we just need to be together with our family.
"Moreover, there is a rule in Indonesia. A couple does not allowed to get a job in the same place. So, if there is a woman who find his boyfriend at her office and they get married, automatically, the one of them must be resign from the office."
DeleteI know that this "rule" applies widely in Japanese culture ~ although less nowadays than was the case in the past ~ but are you sure this is true in Indonesia? This is not trick question; I am genuinely curious. If "one of them must be resign from the office" [in Indonesia], how is this instruction delivered to the couple? Explicitly, in a face to face meeting with the boss? In writing or in a contract? Or is it achieved by people demonstrating their disapproval... a kind of peer group pressure?
Sorry Sir. I dont know about this exactly. But this have been applied to my relatives. She was work at bank and she perforced to resign because her husband works at the same place.
Delete"I know that this "rule" applies widely in Japanese culture ~ although less nowadays than was the case in the past ~ but are you sure this is true in Indonesia? This is not trick question; I am genuinely curious"
DeleteIt is true, Sir. Mostly for employees who work at the bank. Because many of my parents' friends experienced this case. At first they were in the same office (or bank) and after they get married, one of them must be resign from the office. Because maybe, in my opinion, the bank afraid if the couple will share the bank privacy to each other. For example, if the husband were the boss and the wife were a teller, then the bank told him a bank secret that only boss know it, he must be told it to his wife which is not allowed. You can read the real case here sir: http://id.shvoong.com/how-to/careers/2287000-mengapa-tidak-boleh-menikah-dengan/ (I'm sorry it's written in Indonesian). And the instruction is usually already included in office or bank rules. I've also read a blog that mentioned a new rule in Ministry of Finance that husband and wife should not work in the same office in Ministry of Finance. Here is the blog link: http://dinarardy.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/suami-istri-tidak-boleh-satu-instansi-aroganisme-atau-nasionalisme/ (Again, sorry it's written in Indonesian).
Examples of using the word MARRIED in sentences:
ReplyDeleteMARRIED at the age of 14, her father would choose the husband for her.
MARRIED couples over the age of sixty could request to share a separate bedroom.
I'm Will Woods, happily MARRIED ( most of the time!)
They got MARRIED at the end of their two years study in july 1999.
They were going to get MARRIED in the church Sarah's parents MARRIED in the church Sarah's parents MARRIED in.
MARRIED with two children.
MARRIED women competed in the Olympics of 1900.
Everyone present at the wedding ceremony walks up to the front to congratulate the newly MARRIED couple.
We have experienced a breakdown in societal attitudes concerning the practicality of staying MARRIED throughout the mutual lifetime of a couple.
MARRIED in a registry office in Newport how did they meet 1 hear you shout well i will tell you.
MARRIED sister.
You were constituted legally MARRIED tho there were no physical relationships whatever.
In that moment i became MARRIED to space and the stars.
MARRIED in the first place.
MARRIED quarters came into use for families.
He also played rugby union for Rochdale until he suffered a heart attack at 45 and never MARRIED, citing rugby as his wife.
MARRIED daughters living within the parental compound, but claiming to run an independent economy and cuisine.
Usual story re: friends, they are happily coupled up, recently MARRIED or have just had kids or are about to!
MARRIED men were expected to have their sleazy affairs.
But, the oldest story of them all, he fell in love with a young Swiss and they eventually MARRIED.
From http://sentence.yourdictionary.com/married
Women? Why haven’t I foreseen this change? I thought women needed someone to take care of them, to love them, to give baby’s to them? Apparently not anymore. As the article explains, woman are getting more independent and are able to take care of themselves. I think this emancipation revolution is a result of the economic growth Asia has been going through. Asia is slowly westernizing, what is in my opinion a good ‘development’. People will get more freedom and as we say in the west ‘the sky is the limit’. Eventually every Asian citizen will be able to get an education and a chance to do whatever he likes to do in life. I am a bit of track about the marriage thing, but I think that is just one of the influences the west is bringing to Asia. Economic growth, human rights, these are the foundation of creating a social care system like they have for example in the Netherlands.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with what you said. It's not that women don't need someone to take care of them or to love them anymore. They still do. You have to understand the problem that women are facing nowadays. Most women in the cities are well educated, no different with the men. And after they graduate from university they will find jobs. They will pursue their career, be independent and try to have a decent life of their own. Then when they finally can be economically independent, do they have to give it all up because they have to get married? Because in a marriage there's some kind of obligation that the wife should take care of the children, and the husband find money.
DeleteWell actually they'll have 3 choices. The first one is both wife and husband keep working. If both of them work, they will have to spend more money to hire a nanny. And if it's so, it will not be good for the children because then they'll become of what we call “nanny's children”.
Second, the wife quit her job and become a housewife. This is what most of women been doing after marriage. They quit their job. It will be such a waste of money for the higher education that they've got. And do they have to give everything that they have achieved? So they will feel weak and dependent because they don't have their own income anymore?
Third, the husband quit his job and the wife keep working. Only a tiny little chance that this will happen.
So I actually understand why the decline in marriage is happening. And it's a total dilemma.
Women face this problem in the West as well, though it's not as serious as in Asia. Recently there has been a debate in Norway about whether or not women should feel obligated to stay at home with the children when they are young. Mostly both the parents work when the children are older than a few years old, as we have kindergartens that take care of the children in the daytime.
ReplyDeleteWe had a law in Norway that said that the father or mother could get a leave from work for the first 9 months or so (I'm not exactly sure how long the leave is) after the child was born. They could choose how they wanted to divide it between themselves on their own. In the last years they changed this law so that the parents get an equal share, because it happened to often that only the mother used all of it and the father none. They believed this was because the workplaces expected the mother to use all of it, and therefore it would reflect negatively upon the father if he chose to take a leave of absence.
Time will tell if this new law can change our way of seeing this!
"Marriage rates are falling partly because people are postponing getting hitched."
ReplyDeleteMarriage as we easily know is a result of a long journey of a couple loving each others. Even though it is not the end of the love journey, marriage is a sacred stage of human life and be awaited for the most of people. But in fact, the number of marriage in the world is become uncertain because most of people actually postponing getting hitched.
In Asia for example, there are massive changes in marriage tradition. In past, traditional family values were stronger in Asia than in America and Europe. But now the number of marriage in Asia, America and Europe is not drastically different.
The joy of staying single and an assumption of "No marriage, no babies" are some reasons why the people are postponing getting married. In my opinion, some people just afraid in loosing their freedom because the time when they are finally married, they are no longer living as an individual and do anything they want but they now have responsibility to others.
I want to marry someone but I also want to work. Well, maybe it sounds hard but in my opinion, that is better than if a woman is only work for household and doesn’t have any income. I don’t want to be an old unmarried woman, we call it “perawan tua” in Bahasa.
ReplyDeleteI will marry someone after I graduate my university year and have my own job with my own income. I still don’t know what I will be in the future, maybe I will work in a big company, or I will have my own company, run my own business. Basically, I only want to have my own money without asking from my parents or from my future husband only for a little bit of pride. haha. So, I will also choose a man who has his own income and his good job which has a responsibility to the family especially for his new family. I don’t want to marry a man who doesn’t have his own income and job. It’s like what will you eat with only love? In Indonesian is “mau makan apa kamu Cuma dengan cinta?” you won’t be full if you eat love. Lols. But, I really agree with this statement. We have to search for a best future husband.
I want to have my own money because you know that girl’s needs are a lot. I am a girl who loves fashion, bags, clothes, shoes, and many more. I want to have authentic Hermes bags in the future, I want to have my own walking closet in my room and I want to have the big cupboard full of branded bags. I think lots of girls also want this. If I have to wait for my husband money, when will I have that? Or maybe, my husband’s parents will complain on me because I just only can buy anything, but I cannot search for money. I don’t want to be seen like that. So, I choose to have my own job and have my own money to buy girl’s needs. But, husband is still husband. He has the responsibility to give the wife his money. Perhaps we can work together in our own company. And still, I have to have my own money because of I also take the role.
If my husband wants me just to stay at home and doing housework, then will he buys me that kinds of my needs? I don’t think so, I choose to have my own job, or at least help him in running our company.
Well, I will keep doing my wife task, to raise the children for sure. I know if in the future, maid is very rare. It has been seen from now on. It is hard to search for maids. People in the village want to get higher education due to their desire to have a good job, not only just be maids. Because of that, maybe I will work but I have to divide my time. I also have to have the good communication with my family to avoid getting divorce.
That’s my opinion for now and hopefully, I will have my happy family in the future.
Whew! Lots of comment in this blog post. Okay, here I go.
ReplyDeleteI think why the marriage level is declining because of the responsibility that the women and men have to take, especially women. I have saw it with my own eyes and experience how to take care an infant and a toddler. Women, and also man, have to be ready 24/7 to take care of their children. Children sometimes tend to lean to their mom when they're facing problem or maybe when they're crying if they're still an infant or a toddler. However, I do not believe that having a child is the main reason why women in Asia or in any parts of the world do not want have a marriage. My sister whom approximately 2 years ago were married and still studying at an university in Bandung managed to take care of her only child with the help of the babysitter. So the solution for working women is to have a babysitter. There are still other solutions that might be suitable for you since having babysitter would solve this problem 100%. Anyway, the responsibility might be the thing that makes the women think twice before marrying their fiance and taking the next step of their life.
from my perspective as a guy, i think that it is true that nowadays women who are highly educated tend to choose career over building a family, and Indonesia starts to follow Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and the countries with high rate of old and single women, but in Indonesia this issue will not be as bad as those countries stated above, because in here we have a strong culture that Indonesian women usually get married by the age of 24-27 and would be unusual if have not settled down until the age of 30s. For me, it all depends on their decision whether they choose career or family because everyone has a right to make a life decision. But based on my observation, there are a lot of career women who are also responsible wives and mothers, and i think if those women can do it, why can't those women do it? Again, it depends on how strong the will of a person is. If those women have a strong will to be a good wife, mother and also a successful career women, i'm sure they can make it though i know it will not be easy, and for me, women should be highly educated even they choose to be a housewife.
ReplyDeleteI think it's not surprising that less and less Asian females want to get married as the years go by. It is probably true that most of Asian women, especially the ones who received college education, now 'retreat from marriage as they go into the workplace'. I agree with the statement saying that the cause of this is probably the women wanting to have more freedom, to be able to pursue their dream career, and not, instead, constricted by the duty of taking care of their children.
ReplyDeleteWe are still also able to see married women who are able taking both the role of career female, and a caretaker. Nevertheless, I support the choices women want to make. I also think that one of the reason that less and less female want to get married is because of the cultural system in Asia that is often highly patriarchal. If men are willing to cooperate with women on taking care of the house, and not giving the 'husband-feed-the-family-while-the-wife-take-care-of-house' ideology instead, I'm pretty certain women are more likely to want to get married.
I agree with Lisa and also Anis about Lisa’s statement "I think the decline of marriages in Asia is mainly due to emancipation. The number of educated women rises, so they are able to earn enough money to make a living and don’t need a husband any more to take care of them. As it becomes more and more important to Asian women to have a good job, the career plans get more important to them than having children."
ReplyDeleteI think It’s really true! But as a human, we can’t live alone. The older we are, the fewer friends are left, that’s why we should get married in order to have someone which is “exact”. Maybe we will get good job and also a lot of money, but will it last forever? Certainly no. We will grow older and older until we can’t work again. Have you ever watched "Up” movie? I think it answers everything. We need partner in our live. We can’t just stand by our self forever. In the other hand, we can’t just be a good woman by having babies, and relying everything to our husband. Therefore, I think marriage is important but, being independent is important too, we should be able to balance it.
Well, Zane, I think emancipation doesn't have to be the reason why a woman don't need a husband anymore. If we take a look, emancipation is both man and woman have the same opportunity in our daily life. So if someone decide to focus on their career, it means that they don't need a companion. And maybe soon when they already need it, they will start to looking for someone. Because to be a woman is not that easy. If we decide to be a mother someday, we have to manage our time between family and career.
DeleteI understand why women are rejecting marriage (especially in Asia). When I was in Junior High School, I even thought to be forever single. Maybe it because I was too ignorance about having a boyfriend, but I think it’s more because I see my Mom’s daily life. She is very hardworking. She is the first person to wake up in the morning to do a lot of house chores before she goes to work, and then she will do another house chores. I really admire her, but I don’t think I can be as diligent as her.
ReplyDeleteI change my mind since high school. I want to have my own children, so of course I need to get married. I used to think to just adopt a child, but it will be difficult to watch over my child. Husband is the best partner to help me raise our child. In my opinion, having a child is a must. They are the one who will take care of us when we’re old. I don’t know about the other country, but I’m sure that in Indonesia, our child is our future.
I would not realize until I read this article, about the red line between marriage tendency in Asia and current rise prosperity within the region. I thought it was mainly connected to our cultural value, our preference to live in communal. It does make sense though, that marriage will generate offspring and it will mean labor force, which are strong asset for developing a nation. Does not mean that I encourage marriage, nor discouraging them. Right now, I have not any slight idea at all about what a marriage is, it sound too far away and still too complicated to me. I guess emotion are playing big role here. But I suppose if ‘marriage and having kids’ are to be promoted in Asia again, we need to do our several homework. Such as how to ensure equality in a marriage law; to advocate our social value of living collective, to provide children well- being assurance and let’s evaluate our mind set about getting marriage. Getting marriage should not be stressful and burdening anymore, if our society are accommodating; the ladies would not worry to be socially judged when the marriage does not work and because the law on their side, too. Most of all, if state is willing to pay a lot of attention on child-cares, let say basic needs like health, education, food and accommodation or other well-being. I think many would not postponed anymore or avoiding their wed and eventually newborn. I cannot see yet that unmarried- single-mom idea is being accepted in Asia within shortly, due to our religious society. Or maybe marriage is not as simple as it sounds anyway?
ReplyDeleteThe Asia’s lonely heart. The decline of Asian marriage usually happens in Japan, China and Hongkong country. The people in that countries prefer to live alone better than to have a couple or family. I think there are so many reason why they choose to be alone. In my opinion, there are some reason : the life cost, good pension system, they can do freesex without married, and the last one is privacy. First, the life cost. The life cost in that countries is very expensive. The building, the dorm, the food, the transportation, everything is expensive. They usually think that if they have a family, the expenses will be increasing while their salary is almost the same. It means that the increase of the expense is not the same with the increase of the income. The second one is the good pension system. In Indonesia, many people want to have children because they think that when they are getting older, the children will take care of them. However, in these three countries, the pension system is very well maintained, so they do not need children or family to take care of them when they are old. The third one is they can have a free sex without married. It means that they do not have to get married, because they are already can fulfill their sex desire. The last one is privacy. As I know, the Japanese people really concern about their privacy. They are usually settle down without sharing the privacy with other people. So, if they have a family, it means that they do not have their own privary, and it is really bothered them.
ReplyDeleteWell , The flight from marriage in Asia is thus the result of the greater freedom that women enjoy these days, which is to be celebrated. But it is also creating social problems. Compared with the West, Asian countries have invested less in pensions and other forms of social protection, on the assumption that the family will look after ageing or ill relatives. That can no longer be taken for granted. The decline of marriage is also contributing to the collapse in the birth rate. Fertility in East Asia has fallen from 5.3 children per woman in the late 1960s to 1.6 now. In countries with the lowest marriage rates, the fertility rate is nearer 1.0. That is beginning to cause huge demographic problems, as populations age with startling speed. And there are other, less obvious issues. Marriage socialises men: it is associated with lower levels of testosterone and less criminal behaviour. Less marriage might mean more crime.
ReplyDeleteCan marriage be revived in Asia? Maybe, if expectations of those roles of both sexes change; but shifting traditional attitudes is hard. Governments cannot legislate away popular prejudices. They can, though, encourage change. Relaxing divorce laws might, paradoxically, boost marriage. Women who now steer clear of wedlock might be more willing to tie the knot if they know it can be untied—not just because they can get out of the marriage if it doesn't work, but also because their freedom to leave might keep their husbands on their toes. Family law should give divorced women a more generous share of the couple's assets. Governments should also legislate to get employers to offer both maternal and paternal leave, and provide or subsidise child care. If taking on such expenses helped promote family life, it might reduce the burden on the state of looking after the old.
This is a copy and paste from the article above. You have every right to think of me as a fool, Ben, but this is clumsy, lazy plagiarism - and it is deeply disrespectful to me and to the IUP group. It needs to stop now before it becomes a serious matter.
Deletehttp://www.economist.com/node/21526350
The decline of marriage in Japan is particularly worrying, because I think that the mentality has been deeply embedded into the minds of the Japanese people. What makes it worse is that actually the government started this problem and appeared unlikely to tackle it anytime soon. The current working condition in Japan forces couples to abandon any hope of raising a child because the expenses incurred of raising a child can only be paid if the both husband and wife work. It is true that they can drop their children in the day-care centres, but the dilemma here is that there is a real lack of quantity and quality of Japanese day-care centres. Therefore, the government can be blamed for such a situation to happen in the first place. Also, the corporate world in Japan demands workers not to take any prolonged absence from work, which forces any female worker who inspires to be a mother to quickly abandon that hope the moment they enter the corporate world (because new mothers usually take around a year absence from work to take care of her newly-born baby). As a solution, I hear that Shinzo Abe has actually tried to improve the quality of day-care centres in Tokyo, but I do not think that it is enough to change the innate Japanese perception that building a family is not necessary anymore.
ReplyDeleteThis article in particular is very interesting in providing insights into the current dilemma that young Japanese face regarding the need for sex and marriage: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex
This article is kinda interesting. Many people postpone their marriage just because of some reasons. As we know if the percentage of marriage increases rapidly, it would generate the baby boom that is very dangerous for that country. However, if the percentage of marriage is decreased, it also has the bad effect. For example, if there is no youth, who is going to be the next leader for this country? Who is going to be the next generation in this country? Who would take care of our country? These days, we can see that many men and women are just focus to their career and it could be concluded that they are just concerned to their works. They might think that money is everything, so they have to work really hard every day. If they just spend their time for their personal interest or just for earn the money, the decline of marriage would decrease and always decrease. And I think if the decline of marriage is continuously happen, it is not good for our country’s future.
ReplyDeleteOza
In this modern era, many factors in our live have changed: in technology, social, culture and tradition, economy, etc. And one example of the changes that happen in Asia in this modern era in social part is the decline of Asian marriage. Nowadays, many people in Asia don’t really care about marriage. One of the reasons is most of them tried to postpone the marriage, because they want to focus on their job (especially women in Asia). They want to be success first before get married. They want to have and get their own money before they get married. And sometimes some women think that marriage is complicated. They don’t like to be busy with the housewife’s works. For example they don’t want to be busy with their babies (change the diaper, feed them, wash them, etc), don’t want to do the house works (washing, cleaning, ironing, sweeping, etc), don’t want to be distract of the other things beside their carrier.
ReplyDeleteFor me as a female, I want to get married when I am ready to have a family. And I want to work as well as my husband does. I want to have my own business and earn money by myself so I’m not going to keep asking for money to my husband in the future. And I think in this modern era, a woman must can be an independent woman, women must can do what men do-but not everything.
I think this article can be the illustration or representation of what really happens in the world. Because of the emancipation, I think nowadays women think that they can live independently. Moreover, they think that they can live individually without man. Consequently, in fact the number of Asian marriage is getting lower and lower. Women prefer to work and be a career woman than marrying a man.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think this way of women’s thinking is also true.
Married woman can’t get high career. First, they can’t get high position, because she has to take care of her husband, children, and house. It means that woman will prefer to take care of personal things than the work. My father also said that women are more difficult to get promotion and scholarship from a company. This is logical, because when a company wanted to give a big deal for career, he must thinks about the future works. Married woman will take much break, for instance when they are pregnant.
“It is better to be single rather than being with someone wrong.” said Irma. Irma is my friend who is already 32, but still single. She is not ugly, consider to be call pretty if you ask my opinion. She is an anesthesiologist in famous hospital. I know her because she is my dorm mate. Every time my friends and I have some girl night out, Irma always being the topic. She is pretty, she is an anesthesiologist in famous hospital. So why is she still single? Well, I know that it is obviously her prerogative to stay single. But it is making a big question mark in my mind. And let’s think logically, if she still single while she has everything, so what will happen with me? I will probably die being a nun because of singleness. Well, back to the topic, I agree with Lisa’s statement that said ‘the declines of marriages in Asia are mainly due to emancipation’. We all know that nowadays gender equality already applied in many society life. Many women choose to stay single and focus on their career life. That’s probably the reason why Irma stays single.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like the women in Asia want to be more independent. They want's to have more control over their lifes and follow their dreams. It seems like it's realy hard to have a marriage and a career at the same time. Because a marriage in Asia is like your second full time work. You need to take care of your husband, your kids and the house. When you first get married I guess it can be hard to prioritize your career. That's probably why they decide to marry later or don't marry at all.
ReplyDeleteIn Norway people are also getting married later and later, some couples don't even get married at all. I also have a aunt that's not married yet and probably she never will be either. She is a really nice women but to stubborn when it comes to guys. I guess that if you wait to long you will just be more and more picky.